Home 
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
> Jensen Healey & Jensen GT Tech > Engine & Transmission > Lotus 5 speed transmission

 Moderated by: Greg Fletcher Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page  
New Topic Reply Printer Friendly
Lotus 5 speed transmission  Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: 06-05-2017 05:13 pm
  PM Quote Reply
21st Post
Esprit2
Member
 

Joined: 05-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Posts: 503
Status: 
Offline
Just for the record, Lotus used three different 5-speed transmissions with the 907 & 912 engines. Any of which, when taken with it's dedicated Lotus bell housing, would be a direct bolt-on fit with the JH 907 engine.

If you also use the Lotus flywheel and clutch, there should be no fabrication required just to mate the transmission to the engine. All the Lotus transmission's bell housings are set up for a cable actuated clutch with the release lever on the right side.

All the Elite-Eclat-Excel gear levers poke through the consol at about the same point. Since the Excel's W58 gear lever must be re-located to fit the JH, it's reasonable to presume the other two gearboxes would also require gear lever mods.

The first Elite-Eclat 5-spd was a Lotus-built unit. It used the Austin Maxi gearset plus a Ford shifter mechanism, all stirred together into a Lotus-specific housing. There was a short tailshaft version for the Elan & Elan +2, and a long tailshaft version for the Elite-Eclat. Owner/ users usually refer to it as the Lotus-Maxi 5-spd. The Maxi gears were okay with the 1558cc Twin Cam in the lightweight Elan, but it was beyond it's comfort zone behind the more powerful 2.0 907 in the heavier 4-seater Elite-Eclat, and it's clearly in over its head behind a hotrod 2.2 liter 907/ 912.

The Lotus-Maxi's intermediate ratios were probably the best ever offered for the 907, and the shift action was a delight. The O/D 5th was 0.800:1. That's not as tall as the Toyota W58, but still a comfortable cruiser.

However, if any of these three gearboxes was going to be problematic with the 907's power, then I'd bet on it being the Lotus-Maxi. I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to pursue one, but if one followed you home it would be a relatively easy installation. Emphasis on 'relatively'.

The JH Getrag 235 has a dog-leg 1st gear (to the left & back) and a 1:1 5th gear ratio... same as the J-H 4-speed. It's NOT overdrive, and the JH5/ JGT get their improved cruising capability via a taller, 3.45:1 final drive ratio... NOT an overdrive transmission.. The JH-stock Getrag 235 would be comfortable handling the power of a street-hot 2.2 9XX.

The 1981-82 Elite-Eclat S2.2 got the 912LC engine and a Getrag 265 5-spd. "265"... it's NOT the same Getrag 235 used in the JH5 and GT, and it won't mate with the JH5/ JGT bell housing. But the Elite-Eclat S2.2 bell housing will bolt right up to the JH 907.

The Lotus Getrag 265 has a 'normal' 4-spd shift pattern, plus 5th to the right and forward... one more natural step. The 265 was also used in some BMW applications, it's considerably more robust than the Lotus-Maxi, and it is very durable behind any of the 907/ 912 engines. Some critics say it's more coarse in operation, and not as nice shifting as either the Lotus-Maxi or Toyota W58 5-speeds. But if you didn't have them for comparison, you probably wouldn't notice (ie, it was acceptable in BMW cars).

The Getrag 265 is a true overdrive gearbox, with a 0.813:1 O/D 5th gear ratio, making it an easier 'overdrive' conversion for a 4-spd J-H. However, it's the least 'over-driven' of the three Lotus 5-speeds (verses Lotus-Maxi & W58), but it's not much different compared to the Lotus-Maxi.

The Excel and Excel SE both got the Toyota Supra's W58 5-spd transmission that gets so much attention from JH owners. And deservedly so. Lotus used the later, beefed-up version with the steel sandwich plate. Overall, It's probably the best transmission ever mated to the 907/ 912, it can handle the most power, and it has the best conversion parts support and knowledge base. The last two points make the W58 the best contender for a JH swap... IMHO

If you wish to bring in a 4th option, the Toyota W57, then the 265 is considerably more 'over-driven' than the W57 (Conversion Components refers to the W57 as the "Close Ratio" Toyota 5-spd). Lotus never used the Toyota W57, but since it was mentioned above, I'll add the following info. The W57 is basically a W58 without the strength enhancements and with the lower 0.861:1 O/D 5th for smaller, less torquey engines that can't pull a tall O/D. That lower 5th might make it a better option for replacing the stock JH Getrag 5-spd with the 3.45:1 rear axle ratio.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 03-30-2020 05:14 pm by Esprit2

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 07-02-2017 03:13 am
  PM Quote Reply
22nd Post
dbeliveau74
Member


Joined: 12-28-2015
Location: Manchester, New Hampshire USA
Posts: 44
Status: 
Offline
The JH Standard (JHPS newsletter) had an article about this swap done by a member. In it he described much of the work involved, really interesting, he even describes in detail how to extend the shifter to line up with the original shifter location on tbe JH.
Regarding final drive ratios; the 3.45/1 vs 3.73/1, you would gain top end cruising speed with a W58 and 3.45, but would lose acceleration in the lower speeds.
This info was gained by reading everything I can get my hands on.
Cheers,
Dan 74 JH 2.2 Dyno reading 217BHP

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 07-02-2017 11:25 pm
  PM Quote Reply
23rd Post
Esprit2
Member
 

Joined: 05-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Posts: 503
Status: 
Offline
Dan,
Is that the article written by Ernie West of Dead Lake Motors? If so, I'd like to get my hands on a copy of it. I know Ernie, and was familiar with his car before it got T-boned. I 'consulted' with him about the W58 conversion, but never saw his write-up.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 07-05-2017 09:19 pm
  PM Quote Reply
24th Post
John Finch
Member
 

Joined: 08-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis MN
Posts: 122
Status: 
Offline
Hello Tim, I have the August and Sept 2011 articles by Ernie. You are welcome to them. You can PM or call to connect. John

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 07-06-2017 04:48 am
  PM Quote Reply
25th Post
Esprit2
Member
 

Joined: 05-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Posts: 503
Status: 
Offline
Hi John,

It'd be great if you would burn a copy for me. You're the one doing all the travelling, so when you're home sometime, ping me and I'll pick them up. Or maybe I can talk you into attending an InterMarque Breakfast some Saturday morning.

Thanks,
Tim

Last edited on 07-06-2017 04:49 am by Esprit2

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 07-23-2017 06:09 pm
  PM Quote Reply
26th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
Just an update. I found a god W58 and grabbed it, so next step is to get a kit of some sort. I have info from Conversion Components but I a little leery based on the reports that the cross member doesn't fit, and I'm a little fuzzy on what the kit does and doesn't include, so have an enquiry into LotusBits to see if they have kits available.

For the shift extension, has anybody used these guys? This looks easier than shipping to and from NZ for me at least.

https://xcessivemanufacturing.com/toyota/transmission/toyota-w58-shifter-housing-series-1.html

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 07-24-2017 08:19 pm
  PM Quote Reply
27th Post
Esprit2
Member
 

Joined: 05-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Posts: 503
Status: 
Offline
Interesting. How much does the W58's shifter need to be modified to fit properly in the JH? Is the excessive mfg part right for the job, or just 'closer'.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 10-25-2017 02:19 pm by Esprit2

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 07-24-2017 09:27 pm
  PM Quote Reply
28th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
I asked for more measurements and xcessive says with their extension the measurement from front of transmission to center of shifter would be 21.75" or 552 mm. The Conversion Components puts it at 530 mm, but I believe I read that this was shorter than ideal. Can anybody who has done this comment on 552mm possibly working? That is 0.9" longer than the CC setup.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 07-25-2017 02:48 pm
  PM Quote Reply
29th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
Well - my plan now on the extension housing is to buy the kit from xcessive and pick it up in Portland this week, but to not have them cut and weld the linkage. I will wait until I can test fit in the car. Now that I've actually looked at the parts, it seems to me that it would be possible to shorten a shift housing that is too long (cutting and welding required).

I spoke to LotusBits and will be placing an order for the kit as soon as I get the invoice. Then it will probably sit in my garage for a year or so. Just kidding, I hope.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 07-25-2017 09:14 pm
  PM Quote Reply
30th Post
Jim Ketcham
Member
 

Joined: 03-13-2005
Location: Salt Point, New York USA
Posts: 208
Status: 
Offline
I have completed 3 W58 JH conversions. One using a Conversion Components kit, one using just the Conversion Components supplied bell housing and one using a Lotus Excel bell housing supplied by Lotus Bits.
The first one using the CC kit (less shifter extension - not available at that time) was the most straight forward. You are correct that the rear transmission bracket was not satisfactory. I simply modified the existing JH bracket with the Supra W58 mount and repositioned it. That was no big deal and I did the same for the subsequent conversions. The most difficult part was the shifter extension housing. I could not find a source for the long one specified by CC. I ended up modifying the ones that came with my Supra w58s. I had a jig (expensive) made that simplified the cutting and holding of the existing housing and linkage bar for welding. It ended up having to be a nominal 25mm longer than the one specified by CC to provide good placement for the JH so I don,t understand how the CC one would work. I do have sketches with all these dimensions and pictures of the before and after extension housing that I can send you when I return home this weekend.
The second conversion with just the CC bellhousing was okay only because I could copy the other parts from the kit I had purchased earlier.
The third conversion with the Lotus Excel bell housing was a PIA. I had to get a spacer made for between the bell housing and transmission. I had to enlarge the hole for the clutch linkage in the bell housing as the Lotus used a hydraulic clutch. Had to machine a mount for the clutch pivot arm for the housing also.
All required new driveshafts to be made, but that was fairly straight forward from a local driveshaft outfit.
Also I found using a short shifter kit( can't remember name just now) made a very nice throw in the JH.
If I can find the jig for modifying the shift extension housing and shaft you are welcome to it.
Remember that I did these several years ago. I understand that Lotus Bits now has a kit that maybe addresses some of these issues.
I must add that the W58 with the 4 speed rear end is awesome in the JH.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 09-15-2017 05:28 am
  PM Quote Reply
31st Post
StevenD57
Member


Joined: 04-10-2009
Location: Hubbard, Ohio USA
Posts: 104
Status: 
Offline
Jim:
Was the short shifter made by Cube Speed out of Australia? I have one in my JH with the W58 and I have mixed feelings about it.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 09-15-2017 11:26 am
  PM Quote Reply
32nd Post
Jim Ketcham
Member
 

Joined: 03-13-2005
Location: Salt Point, New York USA
Posts: 208
Status: 
Offline
I don't recall. I know one of them I used was a Mookeeh.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 01-21-2018 06:14 pm
  PM Quote Reply
33rd Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
An update for those interested-

I received the W58 conversion kit from LotusBits last week (5 months, but that's OK)

I previously purchased the shift extension housing from XCessive Engineering in Portland, OR. Now that I have the rest of the parts, I bolted up the transmission and bell housing (with spacer plate) to see where the Xcessive housing put me. As near as I can measure, the original 4-speed setup has the center of the shifter at 28 1/8 from the block, and the 5-speed is at 28 5/8 with xcessive housing. It looks like the 1/2" difference should not be an issue, but I am going to look at the possibility of having Xcessive shorten the housing at the same time that they lengthen my shifter bar.

I got the 28 1/8 4-speed measurement from measuring underneath the car, which is a little awkward. If anyone has accurate measurements that are different, I would appreciate the input. I measured the 4-speed bell housing to be 9 1/2", and I have a spare 4-speed tranny that I measured at 18 5/8" from front to center of shifter.

The rest of the project has been on hold - I thought it was all sorted out, so drove to the body shop to schedule, on the way home all of the gauges, signals and wiper died. Spent some hours trying to trace the issue, but appears to be a short somewhere. Had to step away to keep from picking up a sledgehammer (just kidding - sort of). Plan to replace the main harness which I had already purchased, but had wanted to do after paint and body.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 01-21-2018 11:22 pm
  PM Quote Reply
34th Post
Jim Ketcham
Member
 

Joined: 03-13-2005
Location: Salt Point, New York USA
Posts: 208
Status: 
Offline
This is a link to an earlier post I made with all the relevant dimensions.
http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/attachment.php?id=502
If that does not work you can look under “Supra Conversions”.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 01-21-2018 11:25 pm
  PM Quote Reply
35th Post
Jim Ketcham
Member
 

Joined: 03-13-2005
Location: Salt Point, New York USA
Posts: 208
Status: 
Offline
If interested, here is the drive shaft dimensions I used on my W58 conversions.
http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/attachment.php?id=503
Jim

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 01-22-2018 12:15 am
  PM Quote Reply
36th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
Thanks - It looks like these numbers match what I am measuring. My original 4-speed measurement of 28 1/4 " is 714mm, with the JH and Excel bellhousings being 239 and 175 mm respectively. Only question now for me is if the 1/2" rearward is too much. It looks like the shifter will just barely miss the opening, so I will try to get the shift housing adjusted if possible.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 04-29-2018 11:14 pm
  PM Quote Reply
37th Post
papatarr
Member
 

Joined: 03-09-2018
Location:  
Posts: 5
Status: 
Offline
I have put 330 miles on since I purchased by 2 months ago. Today on way home from nice drive I lost 3rd gear. I have 4 speed .just going through posts. Does anyone have ballpark on cost of 5 speed parts cost. The ones that have done it, are you having the W58's rebuilt?.
I don't plan on modifying motor. I would just like the lower rpm at cursing.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 03-30-2020 01:50 pm
  PM Quote Reply
38th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
Two years have gone by, and my W58 conversion kit is still sitting there, taking up space. I now find myself with a lot of time at home, and I think I'll tackle it.

I know others (Rick for one) have used the Lotus Bits kit. There are a few parts that came with it, particularly some pins, that had me scratching my head. Probably once I start fitting it together it will all make sense, but it would be good to know as I start that I can ask for help and clarification.

One hopeful thing is that apparently there had been some complaints that the kit didn't quite work as delivered and required modification. Lotus Bits says they took a JH and actually installed my kit before sending. So should just work. Also I did go with a SpeedHut GPS speedometer (and tach) so that eliminates one potential hassle.

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

 Posted: 04-12-2020 09:16 pm
  PM Quote Reply
39th Post
DonBurns
Member
 

Joined: 09-18-2015
Location: Fullerton, California USA
Posts: 94
Status: 
Online
I've hit my first snag on installing the LotusBits W58 kit. I'm not seeing how the clutch arm pivot is supposed to attach. If there is someone who remembers doing this, I would appreciate any advice. I am also sending plea for help to Mike at LotusBits. Photo shows pivot with what I assume is the mounting plate as supplied by LotusBis, positioned about where it would need to go. Of course 4-speed pivot has no mounting plate and screws into that single hole. The original is much too long to use, and the new one is too short to screw into the hole if taken off the plate.

Another question - there are two mounting holes from the bellhousing to engine with positioning tubes. The new bellhousing did not come with these, and I don't think the old ones can be removed from the 4-speed bellhousing without damaging them. These are available? They are about 9/16" OD, but likely metric? I'll check with Delta tomorrow, since common the stock bellhousing.


Thanks for any help.

Attachment: Clutch pivot small.jpg (Downloaded 45 times)

Back To Top PM Quote Reply  

 Posted: 04-13-2020 06:02 am
  PM Quote Reply
40th Post
Esprit2
Member
 

Joined: 05-01-2005
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Posts: 503
Status: 
Offline
The ring dowels are available. Getting new ones shouldn't be a problem. They're a light, tap-in press fit, and aren't usually difficult to remove/ replace. Of course, a few years worth of corrosion can change that.

Keep the updates coming.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 04-14-2020 04:27 am by Esprit2

Back To Top PM Quote Reply

Current time is 08:47 pm Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  Next Page Last Page    
> Jensen Healey & Jensen GT Tech > Engine & Transmission > Lotus 5 speed transmission Top




UltraBB 1.172 Copyright © 2007-2011 Data 1 Systems