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AJHAWK Member
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Hello, I'm a new JH owner(14858) and have been reading about converting to a 5 speed tranny. Someone mentioned that a Lotus 5 speed tranny would work and was hoping someone could tell me which one? Do any of the Lotus 5 speeds have an input shaft that is the same length as the 4 speed in my JH? The engine in my car is a 907 stock. Thanks to anyone that can help! Alan |
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jcdean Member
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Actually the "Lotus" 5 speed is a "BMW" 5 speed and a "Toyota" 5 speed is the "preferred" 5 speed. I hope this cleared things up for you. EDIT: OK, that was a bit cruel so here it is. The five speed that was installed int he later JH's was a BMW sourced item. The final drive ratio was close to the same as the 4 speed. There was no real advantage when you got to the top end, just more work in the middle. Lotus also used the Toyota five speed transmission in Lotus branded cars. This was the same one used in the early Supra's. This does have a decided mechanical advantage for cruising as it knocks the final drive down by a several hundred RPM when on the highway. If you go to the club store you will be able to see adapter kits and transmissions for sale there and that should give you a good all around glance at what is involved in the swap. Last edited on 04-23-2012 05:50 pm by jcdean |
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Mitch Ware Member 
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The Lotus Excel made during the '80's came with a toyota W58 transmission. You can use that bell housing and a locally sourced toyota W-series transmission to convert your car over. Mike Taylor of lotusbits.com has just finished making a kit to convert the lotus bell housing over for use in the cable transmission instead of the hydraulic setup that was used in the Excel. I am currently building a JH race car and got the bell housing and clutch bits from Mike. I haven't driven it yet, but it looks like a quality setup. Mitch Ware #19760 #11002 |
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JodyKerr Member 
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You can get an excel bellhousing and cable kit from Lotus bits in the UK. This will accept a Toyota W58 5 speed transmission (this is an excellent and common transmission). Then you need to figure out the correct clutch kit to use. Jody I'm actually getting this right now and will be writing up a how to when I'm done. |
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AJHAWK Member
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Thanks for the responses guys! I didn't mean to come off ignorant because I have been reading all the previous posts about the W58,but I haven't seen whether the W58 in the lotus could be installed without lengthening the shaft.I haven't been able to find specs on it! Mitch-I checked out lotusbits and they have an Excel 5 speed listed as an available part. I've tried to email them several times and no response! Should I put Mike Taylor on the email heading or is it better to reach them on the phone? Just curious why no body goes for the W58 that came from the lotus? Thanks again, Alan |
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AJHAWK Member
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Have I asked a question that has been covered in ancient archives? Sorry if I'm bringing up a tired subject,but I really don't have access to the tools that are required to modify the transmission! I want to do the work on the JH myself but I'm not sure this is possible,if I have to lengthen the shaft on the tranny. I went to the warehouse and boutique,cannot get in the garage. Where are the adapter kits and transmissions on the JHPS site? Thanks in advance for any help, Alan 14858 |
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Dakota123 Member
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Not a tired subject at all! It looks like maybe Greg has removed the kit from the club store. Conversion Components in new Zealand sells a kit: http://www.conversioncomp.co.nz/products.php?which=34&return=14 It's good for the parts list and to get an idea of how it all fits together, if nothing else. Getting hold of Colin is hit or miss, mostly miss. He can go for weeks or even months without responding. At least, that was my experience. The input shaft extension is nothing more than an interference-fit sleeve (don;t havit in front of my but maybe 1" or 2" in length) that extends the length that rides in the pilot bearing. Can be fabbed by a machine shop in no time. The other item needed is sleeve to cover a length of the input shaft splines, so the throwout bearing has something to ride on. Again, not much to it. Hope this helps, Mike edit, replace "sleeve" for "splines" Last edited on 04-27-2012 01:39 am by Dakota123 |
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AJHAWK Member
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Mike, thanks for the help! It's nice to know that the club kits aren't available cause I was starting to wonder if it was just me having a problem figuring out the site!lol I have heard that conversion components are difficult to get a response from. That's why I was hoping that the kits were still available in the club store! I'll check out the link you gave me. Thanks again, Alan 14858 |
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DonBurns Member
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Does anybody know how to distinguish the various W series transmissions from the outside, as when buying from a yard? In searching the Toyota forums they all say to get it from the vehicle plate (not helpful). I was looking at one for sale locally on ebay - the ebay header description says W58, but the full description says "TOYOTA W SERIES 5 SPEED MANUAL TRANSMISSION (W55 W56 W58)". If I go look it would be good to know what I am supposed to look for. BTW, I know this is an old string but I contacted the New Zealand guys and they responded quickly and have complete kits available. They also have a W57 available. Thanks |
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Frank Schwartz Member
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Would love to do that conversion, but that "kit" is quite pricey... |
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DonBurns Member
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Yes it is and I'm probably going to wait until 100% of the bugs are sorted and paint and body are done. The cost without the trans is about $2400 US including the 530mm shift conversion kit. That was something I had wondered about - where to find the shift extension if I found a transmission with a different shift length. I'm tempted to buy the kit and just hold onto it. Someone would eventually want it if I didn't use it I think. It would be nice to travel at highway speed at less that 150 decibels, or is it more? |
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Esprit2 Member
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Don, Sorry, I don't have a straight answer for you about where the Toyota transmission's ID number might be. But here's some general info about the Toyota W-series gearboxes. The W55 is the first of the W-series. It’s rated for 160 Hp max. Applications: 1982-1983 Toyota Carina 1981-1985 Toyota Celica 1983 Toyota Corona 1986 Toyota Soarer 1986 Toyota Crown 1983 Toyota Chaser 1984-1995 Toyota Pickup 2WD with 22RE(EFI) engine 2002-2005 Lexus IS300 (US Market only) The W56 is a truck transmission, and its ratios are not appropriate for a JH. The W57 is what Conversion Components calls the “Close Ratio” gearbox. It’s like the W58, but with a lower O/D ratio. If you're looking for that tall over-drive gear for relaxed freeway cruising, then skip over this W-57 and go for the W58. If you're replacing the stock JH5 Getrag 5-spd with it's 1:1 5th and 3.45:1 rear axle ratio, then the W57 becomes more of an option since it's modest O/D ratio combined with the relatively tall rear axle ratio gives a pretty relaxed rpm at cruise. The W57 is rated for 175 Hp Max, and a hotrod 9XX can exceed that power level. Applications: 1983-1986 Toyota Supra MK 2 in certain non-US markets. 1986 Toyota Crown 1986 Toyota Cressida 1982-1985 Toyota Celica (21R) The W58 is the transmission Lotus used in the 4-seat 1982-92 Excel & Excel SE, and it’s the one many Jensen-Healey owners seek. It differs from the W57 in its taller fifth-gear ratio that gives the most relaxed cruise of any gearbox discussed above. The W58 came in two varieties: the original found in the 1982-1989 non-turbo Supras, Celicas and Cressidas of the early 1980s; and the later version found in Mk3/ Mk 4 Supras, and Lexus SC 300s. Toyota lists a change from an alloy sandwich plate to a steel sandwich plate around 1989. The steel sandwich plate has some minor internal differences, and it is believed to be ‘slightly’ stronger (it uses some wider bearings, some wider gears, slightly different gear selection mechanism, etc.). In theory the all-alloy version of the W58 should be exactly the same strength as any other all-alloy W-Series transmission. The steel plate version is considered much harder to find and worth approximately three to five times as much as an all-alloy version. The ratios and bolt patterns remain the same regardless of the sandwich plate used. Toyota engineers have shown favor to the W58 over the rest of the 'W' series by including it in so many models and even building a stronger version for higher powered applications. Applications: 1982-1986 Toyota MK 2 Celica Supra 1986-1992 Toyota MK 3 non-turbo Supra 1993-1998 Toyota MK 4 non-turbo Supra 1986 Toyota Cressida 1986 Toyota Soarer 1982-1992 Lotus Excel 1992-1997 Lexus SC300 1998-2005 Lexus IS300 5 speed The W59 is another truck transmission, and it's ratios are not appropriate for a JH. The JH 4-speed cars use a 3.73:1 rear axle ratio, while the 5-spd cars use a 3.45:1 rear axle ratio. If you're upgrading a 4-spd / 3.73:1 car, then the W58 with it's taller 0.783:1 5th gear will give a better overdrive result... see the ratio chart below. If you're replacing the stock JH5 Getrag 5-spd, then the combined 3.45:1 final drive and the W58's tall 0.783:1 5th gear may be more than a stock 2.0 907 can pull comfortably. It might be fine as a flat-land cruiser, but perhaps less than marginal for hill country. In that case, the W57 with it's 0.861:1 5th gear will still give a taller overall overdrive than the stock Getrag 5-spd, but still more reasonable for the 907. A hotrod 2.2 or 2.5 should be able to pull either one. "Disappointment is a function of expectations". Internal Ratios, and Overall Top Gear Ratios: …………… 1st ………… 2nd ……… 3rd ………… 4th ………… 5th … Rated Capacity W55 … 3.566:1 … 2.056:1 … 1.384:1 … 1.000:1 … 0.850:1 … 160 Hp ……………………………………… times 3.73:1 final drive = 3.196:1 … Okay. More relaxed than stock JH 5-spd. ……………………………………… times 3.45:1 final drive = 2.933:1 … Relaxed O/D Cruise W57 … 3.285:1 … 1.894:1 … 1.275:1 … 1.000:1 … 0.861:1 … 175 Hp ……………………………………… times 3.73:1 final drive = 3.212:1 … Okay. More relaxed than stock JH 5-spd. ……………………………………… times 3.45:1 final drive = 2.970:1 … Relaxed O/D Cruise W58 … 3.285:1 … 1.894:1 … 1.275:1 … 1.000:1 … 0.783:1 … 204 Hp ……………………………………… times 3.73:1 final drive = 2.921:1 … Relaxed O/D Cruise ……………………………………… times 3.45:1 final drive = 2.701:1 … Ufdah ! Too tall? Use with 2.2 or 2.5 stroker. The stock JH 4-spd & 5-spd both have 1:1 top gears. The 5-spd is a better 'cruiser' only because it's mated with a taller 3.45:1 axle ratio. … Stock JH 4-spd 1:1 4th times 3.73:1 final drive = 3.73:1 … Revvy / buzzy cruise. … Stock JH 5-spd 1:1 5th times 3.45:1 final drive = 3.45:1 … Better cruise than 4-spd, but not really 'relaxed'. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 07-02-2017 11:12 pm by Esprit2 |
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DonBurns Member
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Thanks Tim- I had seen the specs on the ratios and would definitely want the lower OD ratio of the W58. Just wondering how to tell one from the other in a parts yard. I used to have a BMW 2002 Tii and swapped the original 4-speed with an OD 5-speed from a 320i, and it transformed the car. Better trans in general, but the OD made it much more drivable on the highway. I figure it would to the same for the JH. Also had a TR6 with a rare electric OD. Guess I am drawn to OD's. |
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Rick Willard Member 
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Hey Don...I literally JUST completed the conversion over to the Toyota W58. I used a tranny from a Lotus Excel. I also used the kit from Lotus Bits, including a lightened flywheel, which I STRONGLY recommend (about $350) and the modified bell housing, also from Lotus Bits, (about $400), which allows you to use your standard clutch cable. I also got the "upgraded" clutch from Lotus Bits (just an extra $125 or so for that) for the future 2.2 that I'll install in my car in the next year or two. I had to get the shifter linkage/housing from Conversion Components (about $350), because I couldn't find it anywhere else. I made the mistake of getting the cross-member from Conversion Components and it didn't fit at all, so I had the original cross-member modified/machined. There's much more to the story, but the long and short of it is that it's a pricey endeavor, but...I believe well worth it. The highway driving is just SUPERB!! |
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jomac Member
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Rich, Could you post a bill of material ,source and cost for the trans conversion. And any problems you had to overcome. I currently have the 5 speed getrag and its getting tired and rebuilding is expensive 3-4K. Thanks. |
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Rick Willard Member
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There's quite a bit to consider with this project. Look on the board for tons of information beyond what I'll summarize here. Parts * Transmission - I got one for $200, which was a steal. You could spend up to $1,000 for a used one that has some sort of warranty. Mike Taylor from Lotus Bits confirmed for me that the Toyota W58 is "designed to go 400K miles under 300+ HP. The JH motor can't break that transmission." So just find a good used one and don't go over the top. Mine actually came from an early 80's Lotus Excel with 60K miles. * Kit from Lotus Bits in the UK includes bell housing, clutch parts, throwout bearing, and speedo cable. Again, I chose the upgraded bell housing, so I could keep my stock clutch cable. I also chose the lightened flywheel and the upgraded clutch for my future 2.2. Cost for the kit ranges from $950 - $1,450, depending on what upgrades you choose. Mike Taylor heavily recommended the lightened flywheel and he was right, as the throttle response to the engine is very noticeably improved. * Extended shifter housing and linkage came from Conversion Components in NZ ($350). I couldn't find it elsewhere. You need the "530mm" extension. Labor * I chose to have mine installed by a restoration shop. THIS is where you can save lots of bucks and many JH owners who have done the conversion will attest to that. Personally, I had done lots of clutch and tranny work on my previous JH's over the years, and I think I could have eventually gotten through it just fine. But with my kids at their age, I just didn't want the project dragging on for weeks/months and costing me lots of weekend time away from the family. The major things we had to handle were the cross-member (a specially machined mounting plate was welded to the original JH cross-member), the shifter (created from the Lotus Excel shifter and the original JH shifter), and the driveshaft (very standard work for a driveshaft specialist). I spent about $3K on labor. I had hoped that this would be around $2K, but...we had some snags and adjustments that had to be worked out. I wanted the work to be top notch - which it is. Again, there is PLENTY of money to be saved here, but there's no doubt that you'll do some machine work to get the cross member and shifter correct. * I still have the speedometer to calibrate, because I couldn't find speedometer gears to work with this particular conversion. In my research, I struggled to find the proper gearing that was guaranteed to mesh properly, and just decided to have it calibrated instead. Thus, I will have to get a specialist to handle this. I expect roughly $200 for this, give or take $50. Another thought to consider from my own experience. The 2nd of my 4 JH's had the Getrag 5-speed, which is a good tranny for the car, but...the Toyota is so much better on the highway. It's about 500 RPM's lower than the Getrag at 75 mph and 900 RPM's lower than the 4-speed at 75 mph. My previous/3rd JH had a 2.2 mated to a standard 4-speed. The engine was awesome (again, lots of $$$), but the tranny really let it down on the freeway. That particular car was done in by an engine fire (long story). Knowing what I know now, I would have done the 5-speed FIRST before going for the 2.2 (unless you do both upgrades at the same time). I'll do the 2.2 in the near future, but my current car has 45mm Dellorto's, the lightened flywheel, and the W58, and it drives beautifully, as is. Search the comments of the message board here, and you'll see plenty of testimonials. In the end, I figured that I will own this car for the rest of my life (hopefully), and I only wanted to do this once and do it right. My two cents; the project was costly, but for someone committed to their car for the long-term...worth every penny. Good luck! Rick Last edited on 04-12-2017 05:59 pm by Rick Willard |
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answerman Member
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Rick Willard wrote:Another thought to consider from my own experience. The 2nd of my 4 JH's had the Getrag 5-speed, which is a good tranny for the car, but...the Toyota is so much better on the highway. It's about 500 RPM's lower than the Getrag at 75 mph and 900 RPM's lower than the 4-speed at 75 mph. Maybe I'm misunderstanding something here, but that doesn't make sense. The Chrysler 4-speed and the Getrag 5-speed both had the same final ratio of 1:1. Though the differential ratios were different (3.73:1 for the 4-speed and 3.45:1 for the 5-speed) so that would explain the difference now that I think about it. But if you're just comparing apples to apples, there's no difference between 4th gear in the 4-speed and 5th gear in the 5-speed. Rick, which rear end do you have in the car with the W58? |
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Rick Willard Member
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Sorry. To be clear and I hope I'm describing this right. If you look at the post above by Tim Engel, he notes that the 5th gear ratio of the W58 is at 0.783. I have the stock 4-speed rear end in my car (the 3.73). When I was referring to the rpm's at highway speeds, I was referring to the engine speed in TOP gear for each of the set-ups. With the W58 with the 3.73 rear end I have right now, and going approximately 75 mph, the 5th gear on the W58 leaves me with rpm's that are APPROXIMATELY 450-500 rpm's lower than the stock set-up for the JH5/Jensen GT (with 3.45 rear end in top gear on the Getrag). It is approximately 900 rpm's lower than the stock 4-speed (3.73 rear end in top/4th gear) at 75 mph. Again, I hope that I'm describing that correctly for your question. There are other posts elsewhere on the message board that go into much more detail about tranny and rear end set-up. And those posts are written by JH owners who are much smarter than me! Last edited on 04-13-2017 03:32 am by Rick Willard |
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answerman Member
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OK, that makes all kinds of sense then. I remember noticing once (though I've rebuilt my tach to RVC specs and I'm not sure just how accurate it is) that with my stock 4 speed and 3.73 rear end that in 4th gear, there's a definite easy math between RPM and MPH: half the speed x 100 = RPM (in other words, 70MPH = 3500 RPM, 60 MPH = 3000 RPM, etc.) Obviously there are a lot of factors such as gauge accuracy and tire sizes that could affect it, but this is my experience with my particular car. I'd be curious as to which rear end would be the preferred one for the W58: if you combined it with the 3.45 you'd have a serious freeway cruiser. |
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Rick Willard Member
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I gotta tell you, and I hope I don't sound like an arrogant son of a gun...I really like the set-up I have right now and highly doubt that I would change the rear end. The biggest factors that make my 2.0 set-up a little better than stock include the 45mm Dells (with K&N filters) and the lightened flywheel (which really helps with driveability - revs come up much quicker). The ratios on the W58 are very similar to the stock 4-speed ratios in the first four gears, which I think are just right. So, just as you're coming up to speed on the freeway and revs are building in 4th...you now have a new gear to go to right when you need it. My set-up is obviously NOT a 2.2 with the awesome low-end torque. But, everything else is there. It makes me wish that Jensen Motors built the car with this type of 5-speed to begin with. If anyone reading this post is unsure about the time/effort/cost of this conversion...let me assure you that it's definitely worth it! Happy motoring JH buddies! Last edited on 04-13-2017 06:53 pm by Rick Willard |
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Esprit2 Member
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Just for the record, Lotus used three different 5-speed transmissions with the 907 & 912 engines. Any of which, when taken with it's dedicated Lotus bell housing, would be a direct bolt-on fit with the JH 907 engine. If you also use the Lotus flywheel and clutch, there should be no fabrication required just to mate the transmission to the engine. All the Lotus transmission's bell housings are set up for a cable actuated clutch with the release lever on the right side. All the Elite-Eclat-Excel gear levers poke through the consol at about the same point. Since the Excel's W58 gear lever must be re-located to fit the JH, it's reasonable to presume the other two gearboxes would also require gear lever mods. The first Elite-Eclat 5-spd was a Lotus-built unit. It used the Austin Maxi gearset plus a Ford shifter mechanism, all stirred together into a Lotus-specific housing. There was a short tailshaft version for the Elan & Elan +2, and a long tailshaft version for the Elite-Eclat. Owner/ users usually refer to it as the Lotus-Maxi 5-spd. The Maxi gears were okay with the 1558cc Twin Cam in the lightweight Elan, but it was beyond it's comfort zone behind the more powerful 2.0 907 in the heavier 4-seater Elite-Eclat, and it's clearly in over its head behind a hotrod 2.2 liter 907/ 912. The Lotus-Maxi's intermediate ratios were probably the best ever offered for the 907, and the shift action was a delight. The O/D 5th was 0.800:1. That's not as tall as the Toyota W58, but still a comfortable cruiser. However, if any of these three gearboxes was going to be problematic with the 907's power, then I'd bet on it being the Lotus-Maxi. I wouldn't recommend going out of your way to pursue one, but if one followed you home it would be a relatively easy installation. Emphasis on 'relatively'. The JH Getrag 235 has a dog-leg 1st gear (to the left & back) and a 1:1 5th gear ratio... same as the J-H 4-speed. It's NOT overdrive, and the JH5/ JGT get their improved cruising capability via a taller, 3.45:1 final drive ratio... NOT an overdrive transmission.. The JH-stock Getrag 235 would be comfortable handling the power of a street-hot 2.2 9XX. The 1981-82 Elite-Eclat S2.2 got the 912LC engine and a Getrag 265 5-spd. "265"... it's NOT the same Getrag 235 used in the JH5 and GT, and it won't mate with the JH5/ JGT bell housing. But the Elite-Eclat S2.2 bell housing will bolt right up to the JH 907. The Lotus Getrag 265 has a 'normal' 4-spd shift pattern, plus 5th to the right and forward... one more natural step. The 265 was also used in some BMW applications, it's considerably more robust than the Lotus-Maxi, and it is very durable behind any of the 907/ 912 engines. Some critics say it's more coarse in operation, and not as nice shifting as either the Lotus-Maxi or Toyota W58 5-speeds. But if you didn't have them for comparison, you probably wouldn't notice (ie, it was acceptable in BMW cars). The Getrag 265 is a true overdrive gearbox, with a 0.813:1 O/D 5th gear ratio, making it an easier 'overdrive' conversion for a 4-spd J-H. However, it's the least 'over-driven' of the three Lotus 5-speeds (verses Lotus-Maxi & W58), but it's not much different compared to the Lotus-Maxi. The Excel and Excel SE both got the Toyota Supra's W58 5-spd transmission that gets so much attention from JH owners. And deservedly so. Lotus used the later, beefed-up version with the steel sandwich plate. Overall, It's probably the best transmission ever mated to the 907/ 912, it can handle the most power, and it has the best conversion parts support and knowledge base. The last two points make the W58 the best contender for a JH swap... IMHO If you wish to bring in a 4th option, the Toyota W57, then the 265 is considerably more 'over-driven' than the W57 (Conversion Components refers to the W57 as the "Close Ratio" Toyota 5-spd). Lotus never used the Toyota W57, but since it was mentioned above, I'll add the following info. The W57 is basically a W58 without the strength enhancements and with the lower 0.861:1 O/D 5th for smaller, less torquey engines that can't pull a tall O/D. That lower 5th might make it a better option for replacing the stock JH Getrag 5-spd with the 3.45:1 rear axle ratio. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 03-30-2020 05:14 pm by Esprit2 |
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dbeliveau74 Member 
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The JH Standard (JHPS newsletter) had an article about this swap done by a member. In it he described much of the work involved, really interesting, he even describes in detail how to extend the shifter to line up with the original shifter location on tbe JH. Regarding final drive ratios; the 3.45/1 vs 3.73/1, you would gain top end cruising speed with a W58 and 3.45, but would lose acceleration in the lower speeds. This info was gained by reading everything I can get my hands on. Cheers, Dan 74 JH 2.2 Dyno reading 217BHP |
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Esprit2 Member
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Dan, Is that the article written by Ernie West of Dead Lake Motors? If so, I'd like to get my hands on a copy of it. I know Ernie, and was familiar with his car before it got T-boned. I 'consulted' with him about the W58 conversion, but never saw his write-up. Regards, Tim Engel |
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John Finch Member
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Hello Tim, I have the August and Sept 2011 articles by Ernie. You are welcome to them. You can PM or call to connect. John |
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Esprit2 Member
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Hi John, It'd be great if you would burn a copy for me. You're the one doing all the travelling, so when you're home sometime, ping me and I'll pick them up. Or maybe I can talk you into attending an InterMarque Breakfast some Saturday morning. Thanks, Tim Last edited on 07-06-2017 04:49 am by Esprit2 |
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DonBurns Member
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Just an update. I found a god W58 and grabbed it, so next step is to get a kit of some sort. I have info from Conversion Components but I a little leery based on the reports that the cross member doesn't fit, and I'm a little fuzzy on what the kit does and doesn't include, so have an enquiry into LotusBits to see if they have kits available. For the shift extension, has anybody used these guys? This looks easier than shipping to and from NZ for me at least. https://xcessivemanufacturing.com/toyota/transmission/toyota-w58-shifter-housing-series-1.html |
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Esprit2 Member
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Interesting. How much does the W58's shifter need to be modified to fit properly in the JH? Is the excessive mfg part right for the job, or just 'closer'. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 10-25-2017 02:19 pm by Esprit2 |
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DonBurns Member
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I asked for more measurements and xcessive says with their extension the measurement from front of transmission to center of shifter would be 21.75" or 552 mm. The Conversion Components puts it at 530 mm, but I believe I read that this was shorter than ideal. Can anybody who has done this comment on 552mm possibly working? That is 0.9" longer than the CC setup. |
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DonBurns Member
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Well - my plan now on the extension housing is to buy the kit from xcessive and pick it up in Portland this week, but to not have them cut and weld the linkage. I will wait until I can test fit in the car. Now that I've actually looked at the parts, it seems to me that it would be possible to shorten a shift housing that is too long (cutting and welding required). I spoke to LotusBits and will be placing an order for the kit as soon as I get the invoice. Then it will probably sit in my garage for a year or so. Just kidding, I hope. |
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Jim Ketcham Member
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I have completed 3 W58 JH conversions. One using a Conversion Components kit, one using just the Conversion Components supplied bell housing and one using a Lotus Excel bell housing supplied by Lotus Bits. The first one using the CC kit (less shifter extension - not available at that time) was the most straight forward. You are correct that the rear transmission bracket was not satisfactory. I simply modified the existing JH bracket with the Supra W58 mount and repositioned it. That was no big deal and I did the same for the subsequent conversions. The most difficult part was the shifter extension housing. I could not find a source for the long one specified by CC. I ended up modifying the ones that came with my Supra w58s. I had a jig (expensive) made that simplified the cutting and holding of the existing housing and linkage bar for welding. It ended up having to be a nominal 25mm longer than the one specified by CC to provide good placement for the JH so I don,t understand how the CC one would work. I do have sketches with all these dimensions and pictures of the before and after extension housing that I can send you when I return home this weekend. The second conversion with just the CC bellhousing was okay only because I could copy the other parts from the kit I had purchased earlier. The third conversion with the Lotus Excel bell housing was a PIA. I had to get a spacer made for between the bell housing and transmission. I had to enlarge the hole for the clutch linkage in the bell housing as the Lotus used a hydraulic clutch. Had to machine a mount for the clutch pivot arm for the housing also. All required new driveshafts to be made, but that was fairly straight forward from a local driveshaft outfit. Also I found using a short shifter kit( can't remember name just now) made a very nice throw in the JH. If I can find the jig for modifying the shift extension housing and shaft you are welcome to it. Remember that I did these several years ago. I understand that Lotus Bits now has a kit that maybe addresses some of these issues. I must add that the W58 with the 4 speed rear end is awesome in the JH. |
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StevenD57 Member 
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Jim: Was the short shifter made by Cube Speed out of Australia? I have one in my JH with the W58 and I have mixed feelings about it. |
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Jim Ketcham Member
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I don't recall. I know one of them I used was a Mookeeh. |
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DonBurns Member
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An update for those interested- I received the W58 conversion kit from LotusBits last week (5 months, but that's OK) I previously purchased the shift extension housing from XCessive Engineering in Portland, OR. Now that I have the rest of the parts, I bolted up the transmission and bell housing (with spacer plate) to see where the Xcessive housing put me. As near as I can measure, the original 4-speed setup has the center of the shifter at 28 1/8 from the block, and the 5-speed is at 28 5/8 with xcessive housing. It looks like the 1/2" difference should not be an issue, but I am going to look at the possibility of having Xcessive shorten the housing at the same time that they lengthen my shifter bar. I got the 28 1/8 4-speed measurement from measuring underneath the car, which is a little awkward. If anyone has accurate measurements that are different, I would appreciate the input. I measured the 4-speed bell housing to be 9 1/2", and I have a spare 4-speed tranny that I measured at 18 5/8" from front to center of shifter. The rest of the project has been on hold - I thought it was all sorted out, so drove to the body shop to schedule, on the way home all of the gauges, signals and wiper died. Spent some hours trying to trace the issue, but appears to be a short somewhere. Had to step away to keep from picking up a sledgehammer (just kidding - sort of). Plan to replace the main harness which I had already purchased, but had wanted to do after paint and body. |
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Jim Ketcham Member
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This is a link to an earlier post I made with all the relevant dimensions. http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/attachment.php?id=502 If that does not work you can look under “Supra Conversions”. |
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Jim Ketcham Member
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If interested, here is the drive shaft dimensions I used on my W58 conversions. http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/attachment.php?id=503 Jim |
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DonBurns Member
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Thanks - It looks like these numbers match what I am measuring. My original 4-speed measurement of 28 1/4 " is 714mm, with the JH and Excel bellhousings being 239 and 175 mm respectively. Only question now for me is if the 1/2" rearward is too much. It looks like the shifter will just barely miss the opening, so I will try to get the shift housing adjusted if possible. |
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papatarr Member
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I have put 330 miles on since I purchased by 2 months ago. Today on way home from nice drive I lost 3rd gear. I have 4 speed .just going through posts. Does anyone have ballpark on cost of 5 speed parts cost. The ones that have done it, are you having the W58's rebuilt?. I don't plan on modifying motor. I would just like the lower rpm at cursing. |
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DonBurns Member
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Two years have gone by, and my W58 conversion kit is still sitting there, taking up space. I now find myself with a lot of time at home, and I think I'll tackle it. I know others (Rick for one) have used the Lotus Bits kit. There are a few parts that came with it, particularly some pins, that had me scratching my head. Probably once I start fitting it together it will all make sense, but it would be good to know as I start that I can ask for help and clarification. One hopeful thing is that apparently there had been some complaints that the kit didn't quite work as delivered and required modification. Lotus Bits says they took a JH and actually installed my kit before sending. So should just work. Also I did go with a SpeedHut GPS speedometer (and tach) so that eliminates one potential hassle. |
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DonBurns Member
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I've hit my first snag on installing the LotusBits W58 kit. I'm not seeing how the clutch arm pivot is supposed to attach. If there is someone who remembers doing this, I would appreciate any advice. I am also sending plea for help to Mike at LotusBits. Photo shows pivot with what I assume is the mounting plate as supplied by LotusBis, positioned about where it would need to go. Of course 4-speed pivot has no mounting plate and screws into that single hole. The original is much too long to use, and the new one is too short to screw into the hole if taken off the plate. Another question - there are two mounting holes from the bellhousing to engine with positioning tubes. The new bellhousing did not come with these, and I don't think the old ones can be removed from the 4-speed bellhousing without damaging them. These are available? They are about 9/16" OD, but likely metric? I'll check with Delta tomorrow, since common the stock bellhousing. Thanks for any help. Attachment: Clutch pivot small.jpg (Downloaded 81 times) |
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Esprit2 Member
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The ring dowels are available. Getting new ones shouldn't be a problem. They're a light, tap-in press fit, and aren't usually difficult to remove/ replace. Of course, a few years worth of corrosion can change that. Keep the updates coming. Regards, Tim Engel Last edited on 04-14-2020 04:27 am by Esprit2 |
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DonBurns Member
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Mike at LotusBits explained pivot attachment. Turns out you use one of the nose seal housing bolts - but I had to go find a longer bolt. Social distancing at McFadden-Dale is impossible. Also got the ring dowels out. Now I need to go find a clutch alignment tool, because of course not the same spline as on the stock clutch plate. It's been awhile since I replaced a throwout bearing. This one came as two separate parts. The stock bearing is the same on both sides, but the Toyota one is different. I assume the heavy flat metal plate side would be the clutch side (as pictured), but can someone verify? I'll try to post pictures later. For some reason can't attach regardless of how small I make them. Thanks- |
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DonBurns Member
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Fortunately I thought to test fit the bellhousing to the block after I fitted the new clutch. Some mods are needed. The stud at the bottom of the oil pan needs to be removed, which is no big deal, but also the thin metal blank plate doesn't really match up. Need to trim to fit, and add some mounting holes so it doesn't rattle. |
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DonBurns Member
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Here is the picture of the clutch arm pivot. At least I think it's going to post. Attachment: pivot_smaller.jpg (Downloaded 89 times) |
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DonBurns Member
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Another hurdle, and a technical question. Because of the 1/2 inch spacer between the bell housing and transmission, the original bolts are 1/2 inch too short. They are all the same length, but there is some variation in the distance from the bellhousing surface and the transmission surface, and there also seems to be some variation in how deep into the transmission case the threads start. So a few of the bolts might have enough thread purchase, but some barely contact the threads and would probably strip if I tried to tighten. So I went looking for longer bolts. I researched and the original bolts are "aluminum grade" with the designation of two little lines on the bolt head. I believe they are standard steel with some sort of coating? or maybe coated SS - not sure. My best source locally is McFadden-Dale hardware, and they don't have these. I was going to substitute standard SS which I understand is not ideal. Unfortunately the thread is #10 - 1.25, and they only carried fine thread up to #8. The only fine thread #10 available are in black oxide. Can these be used in aluminum? If not, does anybody have a source for Aluminum Grade Bolts? Thanks |
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discogodfather Member 
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Wouldn't it be ok to use a gold zinc plated Grade 8? That's what I replaced my bellhousing hardware with last clutch job. Stainless (usually the Chinese stuff) is just 300 series, which doesn't have very good load bearing properties, it's more about corrosion resistance. There are some fancier SS's but it's expensive and hard to find. |
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DonBurns Member
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If you mean on the 4-speed, then yes, SAE Grade 8 would be correct, but the 4-speed transmission itself is steel, not Aluminum like the Toyota W58 and SAE, not metric. I think the BMW 5-speed is also Aluminum? In any case, the gold anodized grade 8 in metric size 10-1.25 were not available where I looked (It would be metric grade 10.9) |
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DonBurns Member
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All put together, but mount does not fit and is a little narrower than tunnel at the mounting point. I believe the floors on this car were replaced at some point. I'm wondering if the tunnel dimensions got tweaked then. Anyway, I apparently will need to get creative with fabricating a mod to the mount. I don't have a welder, so will have to find someone local willing to help. |
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DonBurns Member
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Done! The rear bracket took some work as the one supplied with the kit would not work. I ended up using the original. Cut off some at both ends then fabricated plates to match the rubber isolater and to strengthen the through the body mounts. Also the holes in driveshaft didn't match the differential. Hardest part was maneuvering the transmission into place by myself. I used to just get underneath and muscle it in, but I'm a little older now. Need a different shifter as the one that came with transmission too short - barely above the tunnel. Does anyone have a suggestion? I am looking at the "short shifter" available on EBay. Also have to take to muffler shop. Bung for O2 sensor now in wrong place. |
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