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Oil pump rebuild  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 03-24-2010 08:56 am
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terryhowarth
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i've read all the articles here on oil pumps, and really need a step by step photographic lesson to achieve a rebuild. Only purched car 5 weeks ago and Engine was allways slow on pressure pickup (1-2 minutes)so I changed oil and filter 2 days ago with non return filter and 20W 40 oil. pressure increased for 1 day, although still very slow to pick up and today drove for 5kms and noticed No pressure. My question, is oil too low a viscosity (thin) or am I in deep trouble? and in need of a new pump and are they available

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 Posted: 03-24-2010 08:48 pm
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Greg Fletcher
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I'd only use a traditional 20w50 oil in this engine, but I doubt that is the nature of your problem. I would also avoid running the engine with no oil pressure as that can result in catastrophic failure in a short time. Oil pressure should build up in a few seconds, 1-2 minutes indicates significant issues.

On the 907, very poor oil pressure can be caused by wear on the main bearings, oil pump problems or even contamination in the oil pump relief valve in the oil pump housing as well as a broken or blocked oil pressure tube, so you'll have a number of things to investigate.

The oil pump is a fairly simple arrangement. The inner and outer rotor are what create the pumping action. These run a tight clearance and significant mileage will make them sloppy, but not normally anything close to what you are describing. It's usually worth investigating the oil relief valve spring. I'd remove it, clean everything well and reinstall with a good quality moly lube.

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 Posted: 03-24-2010 10:07 pm
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subwoofer
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I'll be aiming for 5W-50 as a first stop, if oil pressure is highish at full temp I will go down to 5W-40 to reduce wear in the cooler Norwegian climate.

Terry, are you sure you oil cooler hasn't clogged up? The oil in mine was so thick even diesel had a hard time passing. The oil cooler sandwich plate does NOT have a bypass mechanism, so if the cooler clogs up, you will have exactly 0 pressure. Before I started tearing things apart, I was seeing the same symptom as you.

Mind you, I haven't put everything back together yet, so I can't tell what helps and what doesn't, but I am really contemplating swapping the sandwich plate for one with a thermostat. Those never close off the bypass stream completely.

--
Joachim

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 Posted: 03-25-2010 08:46 pm
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terryhowarth
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Thanks for all the advice, I pulled cooler hoses off and blew out with compressor and found no blockage, then removed distributor and brass plug on top of oil pump, then pumped the relief valve? in and out a couple of dozen times and managed to get a few lumps of crap to squirt out. Reinstalled everything and low and behold 55lbs at above 1200 rpm and 20lbs at fast idle. It still however has a mind of its own and tends to drop to around 5-10 lbs at low idle. Have purchased a 2nd hand pump off a Lotus supplier in England and when it arrives I can have a go at a proper rebuild. Another thing I noticed was after removing plugs and HT lead from coil and turning engine over via starter motor was a click sound that really sounded like HT spark jumping, could this have been the relief valve operating or the distributor shorting internally? also don't like that stupid plastic oil pressure line to gauge, can it be replaced with an electric sender unit on motor and new electric pressure gauge and if so where would I source the parts?

thanks for your help

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 Posted: 03-25-2010 09:02 pm
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Greg Fletcher
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That's very hopeful then. What you really must do however is completely remove the spring from the housing and clean it so that it SPOTLESS. The smallest bit of debris or silicon can restrict the travel and in turn effect your oil pressure (this happened to me once so I know all about this problem). You need to drive out the little pin in the side that positions the piston end and remove the spring. Use moly or graphite lube on it when putting it back in.

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 Posted: 03-25-2010 09:13 pm
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terryhowarth
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Ok Greg I will have a go at that, How? do I take pull the dizzie and the cone section off or do I have to remove the whole auxillary gizmo off the block?

Terry

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 Posted: 03-25-2010 09:26 pm
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Greg Fletcher
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I had the entire housing on the bench when I did it, my guess is that it would considerably easier that way, but you may be able to remove the distributor and drive the pin out with a small punch. If you decide to remove the housing, you'll need to set the engine at TDC, loosen the timing belt and mark the bottom most position of the front of the ignition pulley.

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 Posted: 03-25-2010 09:53 pm
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terryhowarth
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thanks Greg, do you know of a web site that has an exploded view of the whole arrangement? I have seen a picture on the Delta site, but its not too good. Also where is the pin? do I access it from within dizzie hole or ?

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 Posted: 03-28-2010 08:58 pm
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terryhowarth
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Over weekend did two engine flushes and got pressure back to 50lbs, still takes ages to come up on start, pulled auxillary housing and as per Delta exploded view of oil pump I did not have the compression olive or the sealing plug installed. So I have gone no further with the pump untill I get a response from the forum. BTW the pump looks as if it may have been rebuilt at some stage not long ago as all new gaskets and gasget cement. Any thoughts?

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 Posted: 03-28-2010 09:14 pm
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subwoofer
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Any leak on the suction side of the pump will cause priming to take longer. I think you will find the missing parts at SJ Sportscars

--
Joachim

Last edited on 03-28-2010 09:14 pm by subwoofer

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 Posted: 04-02-2010 11:01 am
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907heaven
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What year is your car?  The slow oil pick up on early models was caused by the lack of an air bleed in the pump.  On later models there is a very small hole 1.5mm (from memory) that bleeds air out of the pump on start up and allows the pump to prime much faster.  My fist Healey used to take something like 40 seconds to make oil pressure after start up.  There was a service bulletin from the factory on how to drill the Aux housing to alleviate the problem, I did the modification and oil pressure came up in a few seconds.  The same thing can happen if the bleed hole gets clogged up.  I'll bet your car doesn't have the drilling, if you are taking the aux hosuing off to work on the pump it is easy to do - but you need a long drill bit as the position of the hole is tucked down inside a hollow.  Garry

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 Posted: 04-04-2010 02:35 am
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terryhowarth
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thanks for the info Gary, my car is 13599 off the production line 5/9/73 and is classed as a 1974 Mk2, I have the auxilliary housing off and think my problem is the olive and nut not correctly sealing the pickup pipe. It looks as if it has been tampered with over the years and a section of copper pipe has been added for a quick fix,  can you explain to me then exact position to look for the oil drilling?

Do I need to pull the pump apart to drill or is it in an oil gallery on the side plate?

thanks Terry

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 Posted: 04-04-2010 09:11 am
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907heaven
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Hi Terry,

watch the oil pipe - they tend to get "necked" or "pinched" where the nylon olive squeezes the pipe - if your pipe is pinched-in you stand no chance of getting an air tight seal.  Copper won't be strong enough to resist being crushed.  Remember to change the nylon olive for a new one. It needs torquing to 55lbs / ft. 

I am new to this forum; is it possible to post a photo?  If so I can take a photo of a correctly drilled housing and post it up. 

Regards

GARRY

 

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 Posted: 04-05-2010 04:21 am
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terryhowarth
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Gary, i'm new on the forum as well and have no idea how to post pics, you can email me direct if you want at terryhowarth@netspace.net.au

thanks Terry

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 Posted: 04-05-2010 07:33 pm
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907heaven
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Terry,

Greg kindly explained how to post a photo, so here is one - I'll mail you some extra ones.

GARRY

Attachment: P1020257.JPG (Downloaded 152 times)

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 Posted: 04-05-2010 08:59 pm
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terryhowarth
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Garry, thanks for the pics, mine is drilled. I had a bit of a go at the pickup pipe yesterday and was able to move it up and down by hand, so that looks to be the reason for slow pressure pickup. I am going to have ago at using a plumbers copper pipe expansion die on it today and if that does not work, out comes the engine!

thanks again to all

Terry

 

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 Posted: 04-11-2010 08:35 am
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terryhowarth
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Gary, I just found out the bleed hole was drilled in the wrong place and had been blocked up again, so I drilled a new hole in the pump, expanded the pipe and now 8 seconds to 55lbs at cold start up and almost immediate when hot. Will need a new clutch soon so I will pull the engine and do the job correctly. But at the moment I can enjoy it.

thanks to all

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 Posted: 04-11-2010 12:28 pm
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907heaven
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Great Result Terry - takes the stress out of starting the engine!

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 Posted: 06-21-2011 04:42 am
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dmatth
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Hi All I'm reviving this Oil pressure string instead of starting a new one just to keep the topic consolidated.

Here's our situation:
We removed engine to replace header pipe. While engine was out took the opportunity to clean engine, replace front and rear main seals, new cam cover gaskets, new timing belt and idler  bearings. After we put everything back together the car started right up ran good and had good oil pressure (maybe even a bit better than before).  Took the car down to the exhaust shop to have a flange attachment fabricated for the new header, about a 3 mile trip, no problem, drove home next day, no problem.  My son took the car out a few days later and about 4 mi from home he said it started running rough, oil pressure dropped and the car died. Couldn't restart it. I went to meet him and did get the car to run rough briefly, but still no oil pressure.
Towed car home.

Car now starts fine but still no oil pressure.  Read above string, pulled oil pump housing, gears look ok, cleaned out relief valve, blew out oil line to gauge, still no oil pressure. Removed oil cooler adapter and reinstalled filter (to remove clogged oil cooler from the equation) still no oil pressure.

Now I'm thinking oil pickup pipe. 
My thoughts are that the rough running/stall and the loss of oil pressure were only some what related.   We did have the engine on a stand and rotated around a bit (not upside down but sideways to clean off the bottom of the sump) and it's possible some debris in the carb may have jarred loose and cause the rough running/stall (as I said the car starts and runs fine now).  Now I wonder if tilting the engine might have caused the pickup pipe to loosen and lose it's seal.  Seem far fetched but I'm out of ideas.

I have the factory parts catalog but it's not very clear on the relation between the pump housing and the pickup pipe.  Does the pickup pipe come out with the aux housing as a unit?

Any other ideas are appreciated, especially if it involves less work than pulling the aux housing.   Thanks,  Doug

Last edited on 06-21-2011 04:47 am by dmatth

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 Posted: 06-21-2011 06:43 pm
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subwoofer
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dmatth wrote:
Now I'm thinking oil pickup pipe. 
My thoughts are that the rough running/stall and the loss of oil pressure were only some what related.   We did have the engine on a stand and rotated around a bit (not upside down but sideways to clean off the bottom of the sump) and it's possible some debris in the carb may have jarred loose and cause the rough running/stall (as I said the car starts and runs fine now).  Now I wonder if tilting the engine might have caused the pickup pipe to loosen and lose it's seal.  Seem far fetched but I'm out of ideas.


Unless it is really rotten nothing should come apart by tilting the engine. This is what a pickup in bad shape (but still working) looks like:


I have the factory parts catalog but it's not very clear on the relation between the pump housing and the pickup pipe.  Does the pickup pipe come out with the aux housing as a unit?

Nope. The pickup pipe is locked to the block with a rubber donut and a special nut. It goes out downwards.

Any other ideas are appreciated, especially if it involves less work than pulling the aux housing.   Thanks,  Doug

Idiot mode question: Is there enough oil on it? Have you actually checked? It is VERY easy to install the rear oil seal so that it leaks, then you may lose a quart of oil in 20 minutes of driving easily. I know from experience.

--
Joachim

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