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 Posted: 07-05-2019 02:51 pm
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TommyV9
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As mentioned in previous posts, I've changed cam cover gaskets, new MC and stainless braided lines and new cam belt.

I just finished flipping the cam pulleys over to time to designed 110/110 timing from the 115/115 timing it had. Next I want to check the static timing. I've read how to do it with a 12v light or multi meter. My question is which fastener do I loosen to be able to turn the dizzy and check/adjust static timing? Note in the attached pic I found there is a nut on a bolt at approx they 12:00 position that is in line with the shaft of the dizzy and there is a hex head with a slot for a screw driver at what I'll call the 3:00 position that is at 90* to the shaft of the dizzy. Which to loosen?

TIA
Tom

Attachment: lotus dist..jpg (Downloaded 99 times)

Last edited on 07-05-2019 02:53 pm by TommyV9

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 05:43 pm
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Esprit2
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Tom,
Either will allow you to adjust the static timing, one just allows more change than the other.

The slotted screw head loosens/ tighten's the clamp's grip on the distributor. Loosen it, and you can spin the distributor in circles... ignoring details like the vacuum capsule (when fitted) and the cap's spring clips interfering with things.

The Nyloc nut on the stud allows something like (?) 10 degrees of adjustment. The mating hole in the distributor clamp is a slot that allows a limited range of motion. If the timing is basically right, and you just want to make a small tweak, loosen the Nyloc nut.

If you're starting the timing process from scratch, loosen the Nyloc nut and set the clamp's position so that the stud is roughly centered in the slotted hole's width. Tighten the Nyloc nut. Then do your timing by using the slotted screw to loosen the clamp's grip on the distributor. When you're done, the slotted hole/ Nyloc nut will allow a small plus or minus tweak of the timing without loosening the clamp's grip via the slotted screw.

Before loosening the slotted screw, remember that the distributor is spring-loaded outward. Grasp the end of the distributor cap in the palm of your left hand, and apply inward pressure to the distributor before loosening the clamp. Maintain that inward pressure until you're done adjusting the timing and have re-tightened the slotted screw/ clamp.

When you loosen the Nyloc nut on the stud, the distributor clamp maintains it's grip on the distributor... it doesn't let go, and the spring doesn't pop the distributor out of the oil pump housing. The slot only allows small adjustments, but it's the easy, convenient way to go. For larger adjustments, or initial set-up where more movement will probably be required, you will probably need more than the small bit of movement allowed by the slotted hole, so apply inward pressure and resort to loosening the clamp via the slotted screw.

Back when my 907s had to pass an annual emissions test, I'd set the stud to the far left end of the slotted hole... which means turn the distributor & clamp clockwise (advance) until the slot bottoms out against the stud, then tighten the Nyloc nut. Then I'd loosen the clamp and adjust the timing to exactly what I wanted.

That way, when it was time to go in for an emissions test, I'd loosen the Nyloc nut, rotate the distributor counter-clockwise until it clunked to a stop when the stud hit the right end of the slot. That retarded the timing by about (?... faulty memory) 10 degrees. After the test, I'd loosen the Nyloc nut, rotate the distributor back clockwise until it clunked to a stop when the stud hit the left end of the slot, and tighten the nut. Easy. I could do it in the dark.

The slot width gave a convenient two-position setting...
1) Counter-clockwise to the stop = emissions test, and...

2) Clockwise to the stop = normal driving. The timing was carefully set in this position, and was what I wanted. Then the slot width gave me whatever it gave me for the emissions test, it was enough, and I wasn't too fussy.

If you don't have to pass an emissions test, then center the stud in the slot before you time via the screw & clamp. Then the slot will facillitate any small plus or minus timing tweaks you may wish to make later on.

Make sense?

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 07-05-2019 08:05 pm by Esprit2

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 06:16 pm
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redracer
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thanks for doing the "writing" Tim; I don't type as fast as you and would have answered in a day if you didn't.
Once again users, please use the "SEARCH" box at the top to see previous answers to the questions you pose.
best wishes, bruce

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 08:31 pm
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Esprit2
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Tom,
For the record... which distributor? 23D4 or 43D4? I should probably be able to tell by looking, but I'd like to make sure. I saved a copy of your photo, and would like to label it correctly.

Thanks,
Tim Engel

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 Posted: 07-06-2019 02:10 am
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TommyV9
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Tim, awesome write up, thank you!

Bruce, I did search, but had to get on the road and couldn’t find anything like Tim’s write up with the search terms I was using. I also looked in the manual.

Tim, the picture is not mine, but an image that looked enough like mine with regard to the fasteners that I could reference it. How do I tell which exact dizzy I have? My 74 JH is 16058

Edit: I’m not starting from scratch, but want to see where the timing is. Because my cams were timed at 115/115, I suspect the static timing is not very advanced either.

Thanks
Tom

Last edited on 07-06-2019 02:13 am by TommyV9

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 Posted: 07-06-2019 02:26 am
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TommyV9
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Bruce,
Another observation, when I have searched and read for my education, a lot of the posts are from 5-10 years ago. Asking more recently generates conversation that may be edifying for newer members. It definitely makes me feel more engaged. I appreciate the expertise here and look forward to learning more about this unique car.

Thanks
Tom

Last edited on 07-06-2019 02:27 am by TommyV9

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 Posted: 07-06-2019 05:13 am
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Esprit2
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TommyV9 wrote:
Tim, the picture is not mine, but an image that looked enough like mine with regard to the fasteners that I could reference it. How do I tell which exact dizzy I have? My 74 JH is 16058Tom,
But FYI, the distributor's model and dispatch numbers are engraved on the outside of it's housing. But don't worry about it. I don't need it just to name a file.

Regards,
Tim Engel

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 Posted: 07-06-2019 05:21 am
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Esprit2
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TommyV9 wrote:
Edit: I’m not starting from scratch, but want to see where the timing is. Because my cams were timed at 115/115, I suspect the static timing is not very advanced either.Tom,
If you're just checking the existing timing rather than setting it from scratch, then the procedure would be similar but different.

Connect the continuity light or multi-meter in the same way. But instead of rotating the distributor, turn the crank in it's normal direction of rotation. As the timing pointer on the pulley approaches TDC, when the breaker points open (ie, when the ignition fires), the continuity light will go from dim or off, to bright or on... or the meter's needle will jump. Stop immediately, and read the timing from the 30-20-10-0 scale on the front of the engine.

If you don't like the current timing, then keep the same set-up, but set the crank to the desired timing, and rotate the distributor... as in the long instructions.

Either way, be aware of how long the system is switched 'On'. If you leave the ignition switch on too long with the points closed (ie, the circuit is grounded and flowing current), then you risk over-heating/ burning-out the points. Work in 5-minute spurts, allowing the points to cool down in between.

Understand how the system works... what's doing what. Then use it to your advantage.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 07-06-2019 05:25 am by Esprit2

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 Posted: 08-20-2019 05:50 pm
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TommyV9
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Can a distributor with the Pertronix Ignitor II be static timed?

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 Posted: 08-21-2019 05:42 am
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Tom Bradley
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TommyV9 wrote:
Can a distributor with the Pertronix Ignitor II be static timed?

Not with a continuity detector like Tim described. The Ignitor 2 is a microprocessor-based "intelligent" switch that only closes for a short time when it detects distributor motion. This is done so there is no problem with the solid state switch overheating if the engine stops and the ignition is left on. When I adjust the timing on my car with a timing light I do not get a spark until the crank goes around a time or two. Apparently it takes a little while for the uP to wake up and start firing normally.

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 Posted: 08-21-2019 04:46 pm
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TommyV9
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Tom, thanks for the explanation, that makes perfect sense.

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 Posted: 08-22-2019 04:58 am
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Esprit2
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The original Pertronix Ignitor with it's magnetic pick-up can be static timed. But, as Tom said, the Pertronix Ignitor II with it's Hall Effect sensor can not be static timed.

For the Ignitor II, remove the distributor cap and look inside. That will probably be easier with the aid of a mirror. Down below the rotor, note the position of the rotating reluctor and the stationary pick-up/ sensor. Loosen the distributor clamp, and rotate the distributor body as required to bring the pick-up into 'eyeball' alignment with the reluctor. That won't be perfect, but it should be close enough to allow the engine to start. Once it's running at idle, use a strobe timing light to accurately set the timing.

Remember to maintain inward pressure on the distributor whenever the clamp is loosened.

Whenever you're timing a running engine, keep your whits about you, and be very aware of all the moving belts and bits at the front of the engine. Be safe.

There's another factor that Pertronix calls 'phasing', which has to do with the position of the pick-up in the distributor. The pick-up isn't accurately keyed into the distributor's plate, it can move around a bit before the mounting screw is tightened. It's final "Position" is where you put it.

The spark is supposed to fire 'just' as the the LEADING edge of the rotor aligns with the spark plug terminal on the distributor cap. If the pick-up is perfectly positioned, that will happen. But, when you eyeball align the rotor and pick-up, if the rotor's leading edge is not correctly aligned with the terminal, then it is the pick-up that is out of position... it's 'phasing' is wrong.

Loosen the pick-up and move it as required in order to allow the rotor to align with the terminal at the same time that the pick-up aligns with the rotating reluctor, then tighten the screw.

Said another way, turn the distributor to align the leading edge of the rotor with the spark plug terminal on the cap. Then loosen the pick-up, and move it as required to bring it into eyeball alignment with the reluctor.

Start the engine, and accurately set the timing with a strobe timing light.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 08-22-2019 04:13 pm by Esprit2

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 Posted: 08-23-2019 03:55 pm
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TommyV9
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Tim, thanks as usual for your attention to detail and willingness to write long posts to help mortals like me wend my way through the maze of JH ownership and performance tuning! I'll give this a go.

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