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Electric Pre starting Oil Pump  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: 07-01-2019 03:46 am
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mgreaves
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Sorry if this is covered elsewhere.
I have a Jensen-Healey She sits in my garage for 90% of the year and comes out for a joyous drive some 30 or so excellent driving days every year. Sitting for long periods has a two-fold risk as her bearings would be dry and she can take a little coaxing back to life, all the while grinding her internals.

I have been toying with the idea of installing an electric geared oil pump
to allow me to pre-lube before cranking.

This would be plumbed out of the drain plug ("T" connector so I can still drain my oil without disassembling the plumbing), through a screen, filter (possibly with magnets) passing through a standard oil filter before entering a one-way valve and into a "T" joint breaking into the supply side of the oil cooler hose.

I'm aware of the Acccusump/ Morrosso Oil accumulators, however, I like the idea of having as much oil pumped into the glands until full pressure builds (60 PSI I assume) And I don't like the possibility of having too much oil in the pan if it takes too long to start (emptying the 3 Qrt Accusump into the sump). I also like the ability to turn on the pump while sitting at traffic lights in our long hot summer days when hot oil can cause the pressure to hover very low.

My question is: Has anyone done this before?

I have a drawing (diagrammatic) attached below and have found a 12V gear pump for $90 AUD on ebay which dispenses 14 LPM (open flow) That's 3.7 GPM for my American cousins) and will trip a fuse at 150PSI.

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 03:46 am
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mgreaves
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Here is the drawing

Attachment: pre oil pump.jpg (Downloaded 98 times)

Last edited on 07-01-2019 03:47 am by mgreaves

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 03:48 am
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mgreaves
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This is one of the pumps

Attachment: Screen Shot 2019-07-01 at 1.47.58 pm copy.jpg (Downloaded 96 times)

Last edited on 07-01-2019 03:56 am by mgreaves

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 04:04 am
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mgreaves
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Here is a youtube review of the pump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCeW0fFUxPQ

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 04:05 am
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mgreaves
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Here is another of the pumps (more expensive)
https://www.scintex.com.au/collections/12v-pumps/products/diesel-transfer-gear-pump

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 04:14 am
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mgreaves
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And here is a supposebly better quality pump (more expensive) that can be "dead headed" with a bypass valve and pumps 10L/M at 60 PSI.

https://www.scintex.com.au/products/electric-12v-24v-oil-pump?variant=864265367¤cy=AUD&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlLnTiOqS4wIVVB2PCh2zNQLGEAQYASABEgKKl_D_BwE

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 Posted: 07-01-2019 04:15 am
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mgreaves
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Keen to know your thoughts

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 Posted: 07-04-2019 04:48 pm
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Esprit2
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If the pump is capable of 150 psi, then consider an inline pressure regulator to cut that down to something more "normal".

Regards,
Tim Engel

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 06:36 am
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mgreaves
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Thanks Tim,
good idea a small regulator wouldn't be too hard to install.

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 05:58 pm
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Esprit2
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Your schematic shows the electric pump's output 'T-ing' into the hose from the engine's pump to the oil cooler. Nothing stops the oil from flowing both ways, and any oil that back-flows through the engine's pump just goes straight back to the sump without pressurizing the oil gallery and bearings.

The engine pump's clearances are tight, and it's not like there would be un-impeded back-flow. But whatever back-flow there is will detract from the electric pump's effectiveness at pressurizing the bearings.

Try it as it is to start with. But if it appears that you're losing pressure somewhere, try adding a one-way valve between the engine's pump and the T-fitting where the electric pump joins in. Make it a large enough one-way valve that it doesn't restrict the engine pump's normal circulation.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Last edited on 07-05-2019 06:46 pm by Esprit2

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 Posted: 07-05-2019 06:49 pm
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Esprit2
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Early Lotus Turbo Esprits used an external, inline thermostat. If that were used as the one-way valve, it would be closed on cold starts when the electric pump would be used, and open when hot. Just a thought.

Oil thermostats were deleted from later Turbo Esprits. The thinking was that the gain due to having a thermostat was offset by the flow restriction it added.

I suppose something similar might be said for a one-way valve.

Regards,
Tim Engel

Attachment: 910 - 46.03A - Oil Cooler Plumbing - Notes, 86kb.jpg (Downloaded 70 times)

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 Posted: 07-10-2019 03:52 am
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mgreaves
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Thank you, Tim,
That is an interesting idea with the thermostat.

I think the Accusump just pushes oil into one of the lines going to the oil cooler, I had anticipated that the oil pump's gears would have impeded the flow of oil back into the sump.
Though now I think a little more I think the Accusump is intended to be used while cranking or driving so any pressure feeding back to the sump would be against the oil pump's flow. So, in that case, you would be quite correct the oil would seep between the gears in the pump and make it's way back to the sump causing a loss in pressure.

As you suggest if I could size the non-return valves appropriately and install one on the between the engine oil pump and the radiator (before the "T") and one between the electric pump and the radiator also before the ("T") that would stop the back flow.
Good Idea. Thank you.

Love this forum, it's a great way to get clarity.

Cheers
Michael

Last edited on 07-10-2019 03:58 am by mgreaves

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 Posted: 07-29-2019 04:22 am
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mgreaves
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Thought I'd provide an update on this thread:
To mount the oil pump I made a bracket out of 3mm Mild steel and bolted it using existing bolt holes where the radiator mounts and onto a small racket that wasn't holding anything. (I have 1110- 55032 which is a pre-production prototype) so I didn't want to be altering the chassis in any way, lest I ruin something that cant be replaced.
The bracket took a while to get right but fits in the odd angle area on the RHS of the radiator. This is where i"ve mounted CB's. relays for the pump and electric radiator and electric thermostat for the electric fan.
I'll have to pull it off again when I get the correct paint and the wiring will need a tidy before I start getting Oil hoses cut and installed.
Cheers
Michael

Attachment: Electric Oil Pump JH.jpg (Downloaded 22 times)

Last edited on 07-31-2019 07:37 am by mgreaves

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 Posted: 08-12-2019 11:21 pm
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Bluekaos5
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Had the opportunity to visit a restoration shop that specializes restoration of expensive vintage cars. In their engine department there was a 1 gallon hand pump pressurized weed sprayer with oil in in it. When questioned about it; they said they use it to prime the oil system of a fresh engine rebuild prior to starting and also to check bearing clearances via oil flowing around rod and main bearing caps when the oil pan is off (a cap flowing less oil means a tight bearing, too much a loose bearing). They put an adapter where the oil pressure sending unit is that would allow connecting the pressure sprayer and then start pumping the pressure sprayer; it develops about 1-5 psi feeding into the main oil gallery feeding the engine components. Possibly adding a tee at the oil pressure sender that you could adapt a pressure sprayer to and cap off when not required would be the cheapest way to pre-lube the engine; though it may add a bit more oil to the sump.

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 Posted: 08-12-2019 11:46 pm
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mgreaves
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That is an interesting Idea with the weed sprayer. 5 PSI isn't much and it still gets through. I suppose that pressure is perfect for inspecting as at 50 PSI, you'd have no Idea which cap is too tight as the'd all be flowing lots.

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