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Lug Nut Torque  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 01-25-2007 03:52 pm
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73healey
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If an anti-seez compound is used what should the lug nut torque be? I see that if dry, 51 lbs is recommended.

Thanks

Jim

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 Posted: 01-26-2007 01:47 pm
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Mark Rosenbaum
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Totally ignoring all the good, sensible advice I've received over the years, I use anti-sieze compound on my car's lug nuts. The torque value I've chosen is 40 to 42 ft-lb, which may be a bit high. However, I've also made sure the bore in each lug nut has the proper depth, diameter, and thread form -- which none of them did when I bought the car back in 2000.

So far, none of my wheels or lug nuts have come loose or fallen off. YMMV.

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 Posted: 01-28-2007 04:09 am
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Tony Hollart
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I have had my wheels on and off a number of times today while doing a wheel alignment check and a wheel base length check. I am still using some steel wheels with steel lug nuts torqued to 45 ft-lbs with some thread lube on the nuts.

The method I used for wheel alignment check is by using some channel steel 100 mm high, one in front of the wheel and one behind, two lengths of angle iron pressed against the tyre wall and held in place with bungy cords. Use a tape measure to read the distance across the rear of the tyre and then the front. If the measurement is 2.3 mm your toe in is spot on. What is surprising to me was the amount the toe in varies for even small adjustments in the position of the steering wheel, I found myself checking that the wheels where pointing straight ahead to get a check on the toe in.

The other measurement I checked was the wheel base. I put rims only on the rear axle both sides and lowered the car into some 100 x 50 mm channel. This gave an accurate reference point to measure the wheel base to the front wheels. Measured the distance from channel to the bottom ball joint centre on the front steering, made sure each side was the same length by adjusting the rods to the subframe.

It is much easier to pay for expert help when it comes to tyres and alignments, but I find it useful to know the mechanics of it myself.

Must get round to strippin the original mag wheels.

Attachment: DCP_0241jh.JPG (Downloaded 93 times)

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 Posted: 01-28-2007 04:12 am
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Tony Hollart
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Another photo to go with the above post. You have to imagine the rim is on the car, and the channel steel is under the rim.

Attachment: DCP_0244jh.JPG (Downloaded 96 times)

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 Posted: 02-22-2007 02:49 pm
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Frank Schwartz
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From the picturs and measurements, it seems that you have figured out how to
align the front end "at home"....is this method accurate..or did you take it to a shop to have it checked out.after you set the front end yourself...or???
Mine is quite off as I changed one of the bushings on the trailing arm and now it pulls hard to the left...maybe your system will do the job??
Thanks

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 Posted: 02-23-2007 06:07 am
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Tony Hollart
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Front suspension had been apart on my car to fit new nolathane bushes and replacement rubbers on the the rods that push the bottom arms forward. The replacements found that fitted were from a Honda Civic that uses the same method of castor control but by having the rods in tension rather than on the JH where they are in compression. My car felt twitchy ie was not  self correcting well.  When mentioned to a friend he said to push the  castor  out ie push the lower arms out furthur using the control rods. It was trying to work out how far out it was that I found I had some 6 mm difference from lhs compared to rhs. The method is not as accurate as a tyre shop can do and I have not taken it in to get the alignment done yet as the car is still of the road with a few small jobs to do, however now when taking it for a test run it behaves much better with self  centering of the steering wheel when you let it go and it corners flat and does not feel twitchy anymore.
A quarter turn of the bit nut on the control rods was producing about 1 mm differencein the overall distance between fron and rear wheels.

I need to go in for a VIN inspection and registration, once over these hurdles I will take it in for proper tyres and a wheel alignment.

Tony H.

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 Posted: 07-28-2013 08:18 pm
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dwalls1
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Put refurbished wheels on yesterday with anti-seize at 51 ft. lbs. Was this a mistake?

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 Posted: 08-11-2013 03:48 pm
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atgparker
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I used to work on wind mills back in the 80's. We used a lot of F911 (better than grade 8) fasteners for mounting the blades to the hubs. When we applied Loctite to the fasteners we always reduced the torque by ten to fifteen percent. This was a rule of thumb so if you really want to get to the crux of things you need to mount a 7/16-20 bolt in a rugged steel sleeve, nut it, hand tighten and measure the OAL of the bolt with a micrometer. The bolts length does not need to be the same length as the wheel stud in fact if its longer and the micrometer has the reach it will be a bit more sensitive. Torque it to 51 ft./lbs. and measure the OAL again and subtract the initial value to get the elongation. Then take a second bolt and never seize it up and measure it. Then torque it up in increments until you achieve the same elongation as the other bolt that was with out the lubricant on it. That torque that you arrive at should be the proper torque with the never seize on the threads. As the JH OEM lugs are aluminum I would be careful not to go gonzo with this as a 3/4 or 19mm hex usually lives on a 1/2-13UNC or 1/2-20UNF bolt or screw. On this size fastener when all in steel 75 ft./lbs. (with Loctite) is a proper torque for fixing a grade 8 fastener, dry it is 110 ft./lbs. But the aluminum lug nut has 1/3 the modulus of its steel wheel stud counterpart. Recommendations for dry steel on steel threads in 7/16-20 at grade 2 is 41 ft./lbs., grade 5 is 57 ft./lbs., and grade 8 is 70 ft./lbs. While the tensile qualities of the stud are easily in the grade 8 range the nut is not. So I would be looking to fix my JH aluminum lug nuts with never seize to a torque of 35 to 40 ft./lbs. The important thing is that with only four of them that they be tightened to the same amount as is physically possible with a good quality 3/8 drive torque wrench. I think this size tool will be better than a 1/2 inch drive one for the torque we are looking to produce.

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 Posted: 08-12-2013 08:26 pm
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dwalls1
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Thank You for your explanation. If I understand correctly you are recommending that I back my lug nuts off to something under30 lbs. and retorque to 41 ft. lbs. Am I correct?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

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 Posted: 08-13-2013 01:13 am
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Jensen Healey
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I recommend you clean the anti-seize off of the threads and install the lug nuts dry.
Kurt

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 Posted: 08-13-2013 08:12 pm
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dwalls1
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Thanks for your valued input, Kurt. But, why dry aluminum threads on steel? Seems to invite galling to me.

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 Posted: 08-14-2013 04:03 pm
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Jensen Healey
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I figure it's worked for 40 years so why change now? If your lug nuts aren't stripped out after this abuse they can take it a few more times. 

 

Regards, Kurt

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 Posted: 08-15-2013 03:57 am
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dwalls1
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Thanks again Kurt. I will quit trying to second guess the factory and do as I'm told. I will have to reblacken my lug nuts after I get the anti seize out of them, but it didn't take long and Magic Markers are cheap.

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 Posted: 08-15-2013 06:03 am
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Jensen Healey
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Ha Ha! Hey, if the late Mark Rosenbaum did it, you're in good engineering company. Your hypothesis is correct but un-tested in the real world.

Re-inventing the wheel is fun but the actual advantages are ho-hum.

The final tally is:

Dry 51 ft-lb

Wet 35 to 40 ft-lb. Let us know the results.

Kurt

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