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Weber DCOE 45's  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 01-23-2007 10:30 pm
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Arvin Appelman
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I am in the process of rebuilding a pair of DCOE 45's.  In the process of removing all the hardware from the body, I have ruined 3 of the starter jets.  I didn't think it would be a problem but, I haven't been able to find a source for new or used ones.  Does anyone have a source or some used ones they would part with? 

I've been told that most times the starter circuit is by-passed but I feel that, if it's a function of the carb, it needs to work.  If I'm forced to bypass the starter circuit, will I still need the starter jets?  Or will just keeping the starter valves closed be enough?

Arvin Appelman

19492

 

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 Posted: 03-13-2007 04:28 pm
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Triplesn8s
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Arvin,

Did you ever sort your DCOE 45's?  Those are too big for a 2.0L motor unless you are racing or the motor is modded to the point street dirivability is affected.

I am building a race car.  I have a nice set of DCOE 40's I might trade if your 45's are not too rough or damaged from trying to get the jets out.  They should actually come out quite easily.

Thanks,

Bill

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 Posted: 03-13-2007 05:28 pm
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Arvin Appelman
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Bill,

The damaged jets are for the fuel enrichener circuit and I have made some plugs to block them off.  I will be able to remove them and install jets if I can find some.

The info the I have would indicate that the 45's will be OK if used with 36 mm chokes and jetted properly.  Only slight mods to the engine.  30 over, JE pistons, and milled head deck and head.

Thanks for the offer but, I am kind of stubborn and I think I can make the 45's work.

Arvin

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 Posted: 03-13-2007 06:58 pm
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Triplesn8s
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There are several major Wber warehouses in the states.  The back of Grassroots Motorsports or Classic Motorsports mags shouild show their adverts.  I got my bits from Overseas Distributing 604-879-6288.

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 Posted: 03-13-2007 08:04 pm
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colinw59
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Try Pierce Manifolds. Use your search engine to locate their website address. This site has complete drawings and part number listings for most Weber carbs.  These sites also have the same info http://www.redlineweber.com & http://www.carburetion.com

Good luck, Colin

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 Posted: 03-19-2007 05:34 pm
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Arvin Appelman
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Thanks for the info.  I had contacted these sources and they don't have any of these parts.  Primarily because the circuits didn't work very well and everyone bypasses them instead of trying to make them work.

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 Posted: 03-20-2007 04:00 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Arvin, have you tried Eurocarb, I know they primarly do Dell's but I they had some Weber stuff as well, if not they might point you in the right direction.

http://WWW.DELLORTO.COM

Brett.

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 Posted: 03-20-2007 04:45 pm
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Arvin Appelman
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Yes I have and they gave me the same response.  The Weber and Dellorto manual you recommended even says that most times the enrichener circuit is bypassed because they just don't work very well.  I just thought that maybe I could make mine work.  I don't like to have something that doesn't work as designed.  I have made some threaded plugs that I can put in place of the starter jets for now and if I find some jets I can still put them in.

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 Posted: 03-20-2007 05:10 pm
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Jensen Healey
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Do you mean what we commonly call the choke? I took the book's advise and left mine disconnected. I have learned to defer to the experts but there is no harm in having a system that functions as originally intended. You're not required to use it.

I found that the accelerator pump richens up the mixture just fine for cold starting. My starting procedure is five short pumps on the throttle and it starts instantly.

All of you ZS owners: don't bother pumping the throttle, it doesn't do anything. You have no accelerator pump. Make sure your choke works.

Arvin, have you tried that guy on Ebay that sells lots of Webers? Look up Alfa1750.

Good luck,

Kurt

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 Posted: 04-03-2007 09:11 pm
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pbahr
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Arvin,

I use a set of 45's on my JH.  Took me about 3 years of putzing to get the jets correct, and now it runs GREAT.  Nothing bypassed, all circuits working.  But, YELODOG is not stock..........  Worst problem I had was rich running, and fouling plugs.  Made it right by careful selection of the Idle Jets (which really perform the limited open throttle position function).  No problem at WOT, where I prefer a bit rich condition.

Got all my jets from Pierce Manifolds - the guy I spoke to really knows the Webers.

Good luck,

Pete

YELODOG

 


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 Posted: 04-04-2007 07:14 pm
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Arvin Appelman
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Pete,

I remember yellow dog from the East Nationals in Philly.  Thanks for the info.

Arvin

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 Posted: 04-06-2007 05:56 pm
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Greg Fletcher
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Hey Pete, on your Weber settings- I can see how wide open would not be a problem. How does it do run in the mid range? You must still get some popping at 2800-3000?

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 Posted: 04-06-2007 06:21 pm
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Scott Robinson
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I'll jump in as I have run Weber 45s for 10+ years. Like Pete, I eventually found that a rich enough "idle" jet was what made all the difference. I wouldn't say that 3000 was the sweet spot by any stretch, but my popping is minimal to non-existant throughout the RPM range. Webers do prefer acceleration to steady speeds under 4000. But they sure make more power than the Stroms. Dellortos may be better yet on the JH--I can't say from personal experience, but I can say that properly jetted Webers run very well on my daily (and track) driven JH.

Scott

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 Posted: 04-06-2007 06:37 pm
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Greg Fletcher
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Thanks, Scott. I found that lean surge very frustrating when I was running Webers and could never get what I thought was a good combination of performance and good fuel ecomony. I had a problem with fouled plugs also.

Are you using an 50F9 idle jet in your Webers? What kind of gas mileage do you really get?

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 Posted: 04-06-2007 08:40 pm
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pbahr
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Greg etal,

Well, as I've said earlier, it took me a very long time to sort out the Weber jetting.......   Reminder that YELODOG is a 2.2l, with lots of other stuff, and over 200 hp engine.

Here's the data that I dug out of my files:
  • Weber info.
    • Main Venturi:  36 mm
    • Aux Venturi:  4.5 mm
    • Main Jet:  135 F3 180
    • Idle Jet:  50F9
    • Start Jet:  60F5
    • Accel Pump Jet:  45
  • Spark Plug.  (I have Electromotive Crank-Fire Ignition)
    • 0.038 gap
    • Autolite #64
  • Timing.
    • Idle:  5 deg
    • 3000: 27 deg
    • 7000: 29 deg
  • Emissions.
    • HC:  1250
    • CO2:  6.5
    • NO:  20
    • CO:  8
    • O2:  6
  • Gas Mileage.
    • Highway:  21.1 mpg
    • On track:  16-18 mpg
There is a minor acceleration hic-up during city driving at about 3000 rpm a I recall.  BUT, I'm quite satisfied.  You kinda learn to drive around it.  No major stumbles though, just a slight glitch, even when accelerating on highway (like slow gas pedal pressure going from steady 60 mph to 70).  It is that point where the mixture transitions from the Idle Jets to the Mains.  Perhaps a change in the Accelerator Pump Jet might help ?  The Delortos have a third circuit to cover this range, so they are alledgedly smoother.

I have a set of 40 mm Main Venturi that I might try - but it's such a pain-in-the-**s to do this stuff, that I probably will never muster up the energy to start !  Guess if I had an engine gas analyzer, I might try it, but , I don't have one.

If I go any leaner on the Idle Jets, there is major stumble.  If I go richer, I get plug fouling.  The 50F9 does the trick for me.  HC with the next richer Idle Jet were over 2000.  Only remaining problem is that #4 cylinder runs a bit wetter and darker than the other three, but this car has always done that - I've heard similiar from other owners.

BTW, before I get slammed on the cheap spark plugs, I do have a reason:  Consider plugs that have heavy wear.  What does that mean?  It means that there is metal  being lost during sparking (like Electric Discharge Machining).  Well, these very tiny bits of red hot metal enter the cylinder during the spark and help ignite the fuel charge.  Better ignition !  I don't care if I have to change plugs every 2000 miles - who cares anyway?  I think they're about a buck apiece.

 
Of course, all of my opinions are open to debate and challange by others more knowledgable than I am.................

Pete
 

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 Posted: 04-09-2007 05:45 pm
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Scott Robinson
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I have a 2.2L also. Idle jet is either a 50F9 or a 55F9--it's been a few years since I did the jetting and I haven't had time to look since you asked.

With a 4-speed and 205/60-13s (which further lower the final drive ratio) I get right about 20mpg. Not great, but that's at 4400 rpm for the most part. I have a W58 overdrive 5-speed I'd love to put in to lower the highway rpm but need the conversion kit $ worse for body/paint work.

My JH runs great but is appearance challenged as a daily driver here in the rust belt. I restored the body myself 15 years ago and it is well past time to do it again, but that would mean not driving it for many months. Always on the lookout for a rust free body in need of a drive train. Figure I can do that certainly quicker and probably cheaper than a full body restoration.

Scott

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