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5-speed Shifter Rattles  Rate Topic 
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 Posted: 03-07-2006 05:58 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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I conclude that since the shifter rattles in 19336's 5th gear, unless I apply some pressure against it with my hand, I need to replace the bushings, etc., in the shifter mechanism.  I ordered the parts from Delta and have them in hand, so I hope my conclusion is reasonable.  Now what is the recommended process for doing the replacement? 

Do I need to remove the transmission first or can it be done through the top of the transmission tunnel? 

Is there a proper sequence of steps for this repair or can I trust my intuition?

Are there any tricks to doing this right the first time?

The center console, seats and carpeting are not yet back in the car after its body work so now is a good time to make this improvement.   

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 Posted: 03-07-2006 06:28 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Jim, two bolts in the front and a small rubber / bolt isolator in the rear are all that holds the shifter mechanism to the tranny, so no need to pull it, you do need to remove the center column / package tray assembly, pretty straight forward after that, one thing you might want to consider though, if your going to put plastic bushings back in you'll be doing the job again if you plan on keeping the car any lenght of time, you might want to switch the bushings to brass or bronze for longer life.

Plus if I remember correctly Pete (Yellow Dog) Barr makes a 5 speed shifter kit that will last the life of the car, just for info.

If you need a picture of the assembly itself let me know and I'll E-mail it to you.

Brett.  

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 Posted: 03-07-2006 07:12 pm
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Mitch Ware
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Is Pete selling that kit to upgrade the 5 speed shifter? I remember him talking abou the parts he had made when we were at the 2003 eastern nationals. I'd love to get a nice kit like that and put it in my car.

 

Mitch Ware

1974 JH-5 #111119670

1971 TR-6 #CC66950LO

Last edited on 03-07-2006 07:16 pm by Mitch Ware

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 Posted: 03-07-2006 10:50 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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Thanks, Brett for your comforting reply.  The center console is out so the rest of the job should be easy, emphasis on the word "should". 

How do I reach Pete Barr?  I'd like to do the longer term fix as long as I'm at it.

BTW, when I was transferred in 1982 from San Francisco to Chicago and then to Rochester a few years later I drove my other JH, 14482, all the way.  Only problem was, somewhere in Minnesota, a drive shaft universal went bad.  No matter, I made it to Chicago for a quick repair.  I lived in Pittsford for 4 years before transfering back to Huntington Beach.  Only go back now for some beach time at the family cottage on Canandaigua Lake. 

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 Posted: 03-07-2006 11:47 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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Turns out it's Pete Bahr, not Barr, member name: pbahr.  I found some comments from him and Brett on the message board dated last April.  For the kit he has go to http://www.jhppg.com/pk0604/html

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 Posted: 03-08-2006 12:08 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Jim, small world after all, my wife and I go scuba diving in Canandaigua Lake during the summers, it's an hours drive for us, then we have a nice picnic at Dear Run Park, great place, hey if you come back this summer drop me a note and we will drive down with the JH, swap some stories over a few cold ones. 

But back to the shifter, if you have a drill press and a decent bearing house nearby, this is a fairly straight forward job for a mechanically inclined person, I did it myself and the cost was less than $10, Pete's Kit if I remember correctly is over $200. but he has put allot of time and effort into it, and it's a quality kit, also if you do a search of the archive I believe I wrote up my experience for posterity.

Brett.

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 Posted: 03-08-2006 03:11 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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I did see the previous post with your helpful instructions and I have the Shop Manual with the diagram.  The car is in the air, but the carbon fiber (larger diameter) driveshaft blocks access to the sleeve I have to spread, so it needs to be dropped.  PO may have contributed to the rattle by putting a large metal washer between a section of rubber hose and the sleeve.  It is loose to the touch and could be the culprit.  We'll see.

I taught SCUBA for a few years for PADI at the CYO downtown Rochester.  Did many dives in Canandaigua, including through the ice in winter.  Great sport.  Looking forward to swapping lies next visit.  

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 Posted: 03-09-2006 06:58 am
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Jim DeClerck
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The shifter is out now.  I had to remove the transmission support and replace it temporarily with a jack stand to support the rear of the transmission.  And remove the adapter on the rear of the transmission.  This allowed me to put a wrench on the drive shaft flange bolt heads so I could loosen the nuts.  Then the drive shaft could be dropped and moved to the side, permitting unobstructed access to the  bottom of the shifter.  I moved the sleeve forward out of its place covering the connecting pins and pushed the vertical pin up and out of its hole.  I had previously removed the shifter mounting bolts and the nut securing the rubber "thingie" at the top rear of the shifter.   Then down came the shifter.

The rubber hose section on the operating shaft had a much too large ID to be much use dampening vibration.  I'll replace it with one with 1/2" ID, same as the shaft OD.  The big metal washer someone had installed was used to prevent the large diameter rubber hose from shifting forward over the sleeve but it also contributed to the rattle since it also had a too large ID.  I replaced the not very worn plastic bushings with new ones from the Delta kit.  And I'll be using the other pins, sleeves, etc. from that kit.  Tomorrow I'll call Delta and have them send a new rubber "thingie" to replace the cracked (original?) one I took off.  Also I fabricated a ~1/4" rubber buffer to replace the squashed foam one I took out of the inner sleeve.  This is recommended as a substitute for the new foam buffer in the kit.

In a couple days I'll try to put all this back together.

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 Posted: 03-09-2006 12:04 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Jim, when I had mine apart I noticed that the casing were the main shaft goes into on either side of the shifter was worn oval and the bottom of the shifter it's self was a little out of round as well, and not to be out done one of the pins and pin hole showed some wear.

I ended up using a slightly larger main shaft, and milled the housing and shifter end to fit with the bronze bushings, as for the pin I went again with a slightly larger one, stamped out a piece of rubber for that small pad and used some garden hose to go over the shaft assembly.

It was a little tight shifting at first but once every thing had worn in it's nice and notchy now, no more make a wish shifting and ending up in the wrong gear.

Your going to like the results you get.

And also my wife is a NUAI instructor, does this mean you guy's wont like each other, I once wore a PADI shirt I got when I cert'ed and she about ripped it off me, as for ice diving your a braver man than me.

Good luck with the shifter          Brett. 

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 Posted: 03-09-2006 04:18 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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I'll check out the clearances again but they seemed pretty snug at first look.   I cut out  two pieces from the old rubber floor mat and clamped the smooth sides together with contact cement in between, and will use that disc for the pad.  The garden hose section I tried was too small to fit over the shaft without splitting it so I'll look for an oil resistant piece at an auto supply.

I think/hope I can avoid machining and replacing components with bigger pins, bronze bushings.  We'll see.

We also did a night ice dive in Hulberton Quarry in the early 70s.  Swept snow off patches of the ice and put Coleman lanters there for illumination.  Also used hand lights.  Cut a hole with a chainsaw.   Eerie but interesting.  Got caught in a blizzard and had to hole up in a local resident's house - slept on the LR floor after calling the wives. when the car got stuck in deep drifts.  Ask me if I miss Rochester winters. 

I started as a YMCA instructor, then added PADI later.  I understand NAUI has a pretty good program, too, so no problem for me.

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 Posted: 03-10-2006 03:31 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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The rubber disc I fabricated will be too stiff to accommodate the 2 ball joint heads so I'll use the spongy one in the kit.  Also the shaft is 5/8", not 1/2" so I'll use a piece of 5/8" ID hose, not the too large 3/4" ID one noted among the several fixes suggested in Service Bulletin 76-6.  The ~3.5" hose is expected to be a snug fit to the ball joint coupler unit to prevent it rattling.  The other relevant SB, 75-16, has an additional suggested rubber bushing fix.

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 Posted: 03-21-2006 04:28 pm
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pbahr
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Well, you guys are getting into most, or all, the issues I went through a few years ago.  For the record, I found the most wear and thus contributing to sloppy shifting, was associated with:

1 - Elongation and wear in the aluminum Bracket holes which captures the long shaft, 97568.  This allows the entire Bracket assy to move around.

2 - Hourglass shaped wear in the holes that accept the 0.235 diameter hardened pins.

3 - Of course, the degradation of the soft bushings in the Linkage-Gearshift

When I did my re-design and upgrade, I documented the changes and made drawings - well I had to make the drawings for machine shop work anyway.  After I completed the work, and saw the significant improvement in shifting, I decided to put the kit together and offer it to the JH community.  Really for those with shifter problems, and no mechanical ability to fix.  Yeah, it's expensive, but as you've seen, it is a lot of work !

There's other stuff that I've fixed at:http://www.jhppg.com/peteskits.htm

Good luck with your cars ! 

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 Posted: 03-21-2006 06:44 pm
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Jim DeClerck
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Pete,  Thanks for your comments.  Your shifter kit looks like a much more permanent fix than the one from Delta.  Since I already had Delta's kit and there didn't seem to be much wear in the various shifter components, and most important, since the real cause of my rattle was a big loose washer installed by someone to keep the too large diameter rubber hose probably installed by the same someone from sliding over the connecter pinned to the 2 shifter shafts, I just went the Delta route this time.  Because I won't be driving this car extensively and the shifter job isn't very intimidating, if it does start to rattle again my shifter will be on the way to you for a cure.

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 Posted: 03-22-2006 03:01 am
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pbahr
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Jim,

Actually, I bought the Delta kit and not sure at this time if I used any of the parts.  The kit didn't address any of the problems I outlined in my earlier post, except the soft bushings, and I went to bronze anyway.

It doesn't take much wear in the 0.235  hole to cause a lot of slop at the shifter knob.

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