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flatlanderep
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About 2 months ago, I had a valve clearance problem fixed by a British car shop. Now I have developed a new problem, low oil pressure, after driving less than 100 miles after getting the car back from the shop. After the driving the car for about 10 minutes, the oil pressure drops from 50 psi to 15-20 psi and temp gauge starts moving from middle to far right. Luckily I was a 100 yards from my house and I made it home. I called the shop and talked to the owner and he said may be worn bearings or oil pump problem and also suggested I change the oil since it had been a year. It just cost me significant dollars to solve the valve clearances. Anyone have any thoughts on anything I can check on my own without going back to the shop.
Steve

redracer
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The oil pressure is directly affected by the water temperature. The CHAMPION 3 row aluminum will take care of that and is much cheaper than the 3 row staggered copper ones.
https://www.amazon.com/Champion-Cooling-Aluminum-Radiator-Jensen/dp/B00AOCV7L0/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_2?keywords=Jensen+healey+radiator&qid=1561681334&s=gateway&sr=8-2-fkmr1
Also, we shim the oil pressure relief valve 5-6mm( located on the back of the oil pump housing and held in place with a split pin; it can be done with the distributor removed and using careful tapping out of the split pin into the distributor shaft hole). Originally, the pressure relief was spring loaded for 55 psi, much too little for a 7000 rpm engine.
keep us posted, bruce, Red racer

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Steve,
From what you describe, it sounds like over-heating is the root-cause, and that leads to the drop in oil pressure as the too-hot oil thins out. The initial 50 Psi of oil pressure is about normal, and steers my thinking away from any bearing clearance issues.

Over-heating could be due to something as simple as a loose or worn V-belt not driving the water pump at full speed, but I suspect that Bruce is on the right track about the radiator being due for a good cleaning, re-core, or replacement.

IF the water pump is failing, then also consider upgrading to the later Turbo 910 impeller during the rebuild. It's longer than the stock impeller, and not a direct fit. Just take the new & old impellers to a machine shop, and have them shorten the 910 impeller's nose to match the old impeller's overall length. The rest of the rebuild is as normal.

I know, I'm splitting hairs, but tight valve clearances aren't a 'problem'. That's normal wear, it happens almost on schedule, and is routine maintenance, like the chronic 'dirty oil' problem is just maintenance.

Good luck,
Tim Engel

Attachment: Cooling - Water Pump - Impeller - 907 left & 910 right - high 94kb.jpg (Downloaded 189 times)

flatlanderep
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Thanks to you and Bruce for your replies. I will start with a new radiator as Bruce suggests since it is probably the original and go from there.

flatlanderep
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The Champion radiator arrived yesterday and I installed it. Renewed coolant and started right up. Oil pressure was 55 psi and and after 10 minutes it stayed there and temp gauge stayed in the middle. Took it out for about 10 minute drive and noticed the following. At idle, oil P drops to about 15 and then at 2000 revs it is about 20, 3000 revs 30, 4000 revs 35+ and 5000 revs 50. Is this normal? I thought that at normal driving speeds, 3000 revs, it should be about 40-45. Thoughts??
Steve

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You're okay for now, but usually at idle(after the engine has warmed up) the pressure would ideally be 20-25psi. Lower than this indicates slightly worn beqrings.
The pressure relief valve was set for 55psi, which for a 7000rpm engine is too low(about 10 psi for each 100rpm). We shim the relief valve up to 6mm.
Here's what I published back in December(use the "SEARCH" box for more info):

Almost forgot; while you're at it, shim the pressure relief valve.
Knock out the split pin into the distributor shaft hole, and add just under 6mm to the spring(the washers that the cam cover bolts used are a perfect size--maybe 3 washers will do it)

CDA951
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During our epic 8,000-mile cross-country road trip in #19250 (as shown on the J-H Facebook page), we learned the nuances of our engine's oil system. I had rebuilt the engine and it had about 1,500 miles on it when we started, and bearing clearances were all within factory specs.

I come from the Porsche world, and air-cooled 911s run similar bearing clearances as the 907; the rule of thumb there is about 1 bar (14.7 PSI) of oil pressure per 1000 RPM when hot, up to 5 bar. I noticed that our 907 engine (running Total Classic 20W-50 oil) generally follows this trend, though when hot the max pressure does not go above 4 bar/60 PSI, which I would consider low for such a high-RPM engine as RedRacer states. I didn't replace any oil pump parts during the rebuild (pump rotor clearances and endplay were within spec, though I later learned from JAE that I should have replaced the rotor/annulus!).

We have the Champion radiator, JAE water pump with later impeller and an oil cooler installed. We drove the car in 100+ degree desert temps in Las Vegas on the way out and across the Mojave desert on the way back, and it was over 90 degrees and humid much of the trip, so more extreme than our customary mild weather here in Santa Barbara, CA!

I think I will try to shim the relief valve a bit to see if that helps. The downside of this "mod" is that it can cause cold pressures to be too high, which can blow out oil seals in extreme cases . . . .

Last edited on 07-13-2019 03:51 am by CDA951

flatlanderep
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I have been cautious driving the JH, i.e., driving for only 10 minutes. Today, I was driving and it started out great, revs great, oil P 50 PSI cruising at 60 mph. Then about 15 minutes the oil P dived to 15 and the temp gauge started rising from middle. Very quickly, as I hit the gas, I was losing power and puled over and started to smell oil burning under the hood. Shut it down and let it cool for 30 min. and then started it up and made it home.
At this point, is it the water pump or oil pump problem? Again, Champion radiator installed last week.

redracer
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Sorry to hear; it's certainly not the new radiator.
You said you smelled oil burning; first determine where it's coming from and then one can make a remedy.
Very strange the pressure would drop as quickly as you made it sound.
Are the cam covers leaking?; is it coming from around the distributor?; you may have to use some engine cleaner to determine the location of the oil leak.
keep us posted
bruce

flatlanderep
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There are no oil leaks any where. I think the burning smell is related to the engine over heating. Today, I changed the thermostat and the needle on the temp gauge stayed in the middle when I drove it today. Again, after about 15 minutes, oil pressure decreased and it was getting ready to stall out and I just made it home, i.e., restricting my drives to immediate neighborhood. So it is not over heating but oil pressure changes after engine warms up. Where do I go next? Oil pump?

CDA951
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I know that things are dicey when you are suspecting an oil pressure issue, but are you sure that it isn't an engine running issue (fuel or ignition) causing the engine to begin to stall out/idle low, and hence the drop in oil pressure?

Let's say your oil pump does have an issue---if this were the case, the engine would likely continue to run happily as the oil pressure dropped, at least until the point that it seizes up! You may have an oil pressure issue, but I don't see a failing oil pump suddenly showing itself when hot and causing stalling/lack of power issues.

Get yourself a cheap infrared temp gun to mointor engine temperatures and check if the engine is actually overheating, or if you are having an electrical/ground issue that is causing false coolant temp readings (stock J-H oil pressure gauge is mechanical, though).

mgreaves
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Sorry to hear about this problem.
Here's how I'd attempt a diagnosis which is not based specifically on the 907 engine;
1) When the engine is warm (not hot) check the water is flowing through the radiator (open the cap look down and see if there is movement)
2) Check cooling system pressure, (High pressure may be a hairline crack in the Head or head Gasket opening-up after the engine warms up, thereby pressuring the system with combustion gasses. (there are testers that will sniff combustion gas in coolant)
3) Check actual water when hot (most newish multimeters have a temp probe which you can insert between the hose and the radiator, you would need to get inventive here with some goo, but an actual reading that you can trust is pretty important.
If you have determined it is overheating and it's not a crack in the head or gasket, it's probably the water pump like Esprit2 commented. If your water temp is ok, and there is no excess pressure or CO2 in the water; If it isn't actually overheating you may need to change your sensor and move on to the next stage.

4) Pull the plugs and inspect (check online for plug diagnosis) you can learn a lot about an engine from the plugs.
5) Check the temperature of the Ignition coil Just put your hand on it, it shouldn't be very hot. If it's hot when the engine is hot, then this may be the problem, though it would be odd for the sensor and the coil to fail simultaneously.
Good luck

Last edited on 07-18-2019 11:38 pm by mgreaves

flatlanderep
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Checked the coil after driving for about 10 minutes and it was hot. What does this mean? Removed radiator cap after 5 min. sitting in the garage and not sure if I noticed water flowing. May re-check by holding a small piece of cloth in the top of the radiator to see if it moves.

CDA951
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flatlanderep wrote: Checked the coil after driving for about 10 minutes and it was hot. What does this mean? Removed radiator cap after 5 min. sitting in the garage and not sure if I noticed water flowing. May re-check by holding a small piece of cloth in the top of the radiator to see if it moves.As I posted above, it could be that something (like a failing coil) is causing your engine to stumble and stall when hot, with the resulting low RPMs causing a lower oil pressure reading.
It could be that you have an additional overheating problem, but look into the coil first. A good coil will certainly be warm from use but should not be hot to the touch.

redracer
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I assume when you replaced the thermostat, it was a 2 stage one as required?(if single stage the water will keep running through the block with only a limited amount going through the radiator, causing over heating)
Also, both the fuel AND temp gauges run on 9-10 volts made by the "Voltage stabilizer" located between the 2 gauges. It is sheet metal screwed into the back of the metal panel, and that screw, which is the ground for the stabilizer, gets corroded and needs to be cleaned. Now a full 12 volts will run through the gauges raising the needle 22 1/2 degrees CCW(i.e. "hotter", a false reading).
With the radiator cap off, run the engine to warm up to determine the flow and with some sort of temp thermometer to measure the actual temp.
Let us know
bruce

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I replaced thermostat was purchased from Delta. I replaced the coil with a back up I had from previous owner this weekend. I bought a cheap coolant tester and after 10 minutes of letting the engine run and tested the coolant temp. Using this product, temp was 268 degrees, coolant at max protection according to directions. Today I let it idle in driveway for about 10 minutes and went about 1 mile in my neighborhood, about 5 minutes. I noticed that I was losing power even as I floored the gas pedal and as I turned into a parking and shifted from 3rd to 2nd, the car stopped. I started it back up and put it in 1st, the car would not move and the engine stopped. Started it again and tried reverse, same thing, car would not move. I left it there, walked home and then went back in 1 hour and stared right up and drove it home. Decided to let it run at idle in driveway for 45 minutes and nothing happened., so put it back in garage.

Not sure how to solve this and I don’t want to go back to mechanic to spend more $$ trying to figure this out. Frustrating because it starts and can idle in my driveway but cannot go more than a mile,

Tom Bradley
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It sounds to me like the engine is running fine, but something in the drive train or wheels is overheating and locking up after going a while.

One possibility is the master cylinder connection to the booster. If this is not adjusted correctly, apparently the brakes can start dragging more and more as they heat up until they lock solid. See the last post on this group: http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=1445&forum_id=6

Incorrectly adjusted rear brakes may also cause this.

Another possibility is bad or misadjusted wheel bearings that are overheating and locking up, though this is usually accompanied by a rumbling noise in my experience.

I recommend jacking the car up to see how easily each of the wheels turns when cold, then doing it again after driving around a short distance. You can also use a temperature probe (not your finger!) to see what area is getting hot.

A quick test is simply pushing the car by hand if you have a good flat surface. On my garage floor I can easily push my car around by hand when it is in neutral whether it is cold or after a long drive.

Last edited on 07-30-2019 04:07 am by Tom Bradley

flatlanderep
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I took the car for a drive twice today and duplicated the results of prior drives, within 3 miles and 14-15 min of driving, the car just stops. I noted prior to the car no longer moving, I noticed some squealing from the rear of the car and then it locked within 30 seconds although I had the pedal to the floor and then engine will stop. It started immediately but as I put in 1st gear, it lurched but would not move and as I floored it, the engine stopped. Jacked up rear and front wheels and they will not rotate. In about 15 min, it started and drove it into the garage. It seems that several of the Tom’s comments are possibly the cause. I had rear wheel bearings installed in Dec. 2016 and new master cylinder in Apr. 2017. Where do I go from here? Thanks.

redracer
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Sounds like the cars idles okay, but upon driving you are using the differential and transmission. I would check the fluid and fluid level in both(especially the diff) and maybe even jack up the rear wheels in your car, put it in gear and 'simulate" driving.
If no fluid or incorrect fluid, the gears could be heating up, expanding, and then seizing.
Also, your water temp is WAY TOO HIGH. Depending on which dual stage thermostat your installed, the max should be either 165 or 180.
When you warmed up the engine with the radiator cap off, did you see water rushing in from the top left?(rev the engine up a little to be sure of flow).
Be careful of the water temp as you may verl=y likely ruin the engine at that 268 degree temp.

Tom Bradley
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The only thing I know of that would cause both front and rear wheels to lock up is the master cylinder needing adjustment. I have never had this problem myself, so the best I can recommend is to read the last post in the thread I referenced above and adjust to add some extra space as described. A simpler possibility that I recall reading somewhere was to put thin washers or a home-made gasket between the master cylinder and the servo to give the extra space, though I cannot attest to how well that works. Once this is done, you should at least be able to drive it without the wheels locking up and should be able to look for any other issues.

I would not expect any problems with the rear wheel bearings unless you hear rumbling sounds when you roll the car. If these were bad, this should happen even when cold. But if you had good bearings properly installed recently this should not be a problem. My experience is that these last a very long time, something like 100K miles.

Last edited on 07-31-2019 04:33 am by Tom Bradley

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Agreed, sounds like the M/C pushrod adjustment. I've experienced this when trying to get as much slop out of the system as possible. Only takes a few minutes for heat from the exhaust to expand things and the return ports to block.

Easy fix if that's indeed it -- well, I can't remember if the original booster has an adjustable pushrod or not; I have an aftermarket booster which does. Otherwise, would have to get a bit creative as Tom suggests. Personally, I like the gasket idea.

flatlanderep
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Tom, I read the post that you referenced and I need need to know where I find the booster actuator rod is located so I can adjust the knurled nut where it meets the master cylinder.

Bruce, I misstated the temp of the radiator coolant. The device I used gives the temp that the coolant will protect the vehicle. So it is not the actual coolant temp. I called Delta and Jeff verified that it is a 2 stage thermostat, Hoses to and from the radiator are hot to the touch and this would indicate flow to the engine and through the radiator. I also ordered a new temp sensor that connects to the block because I don’t know if it is accurate,

Tim Murphy
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I second what Tom Bradley suggested about the brakes locking up. You may not be able to adjust the booster pushrod, some are frozen. Just add spacer washers between booster and master cylinder. Or, for a test when the problem occurs, just loosen the master cylinder nuts to allow about 1/16" spacing and see if the problem goes away.

Last edited on 08-01-2019 05:38 am by Tim Murphy

Dakota123
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It's behind the M/C, loosen the two nuts and pull it away -- there is usually enough flex in the brake lines that you don;t need to disconnect them.  You'll have to keep the rod from turning while you adjust the end piece.


Attachment: booster.jpg (Downloaded 53 times)

flatlanderep
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Ok I removed the master cylinder from the servo and how do I remove the rubber bullet nose to access knurled nut? See picture.

flatlanderep
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I removed the master cylinder and decided to put a washer that I slightly less than 1/16 in. I placed it so it is flush on the servo unit and then placed the lock washer and tightened the nut. I took it out for a 25 minute drive and brakes did not lock! Temp gauge did not increase and no burning smells like before. I would like to add that when the master cylinder was repacked in 2017 the British cat shop used a TR6 unit. I want to take it for a longer drive but I think it is fixed. Thanks for the great info from all.
Steve

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Excellent, great to hear!

Tom Bradley
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Glad you got it fixed. If you are going to keep the washers as a permanent fix, it might be good to fill in the gap with some silicone sealant or equivalent to keep dust and junk from getting into places where they were not intended to get.



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