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Strange Noise  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 12-08-2014 09:42 pm
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Tom Bradley
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Funny coincidence.  Just this weekend I had a noise suddenly crop up that sounded much like this.  It was a fairly high-pitched swirling noise, like a bearing going bad, but was intermittent and independent of engine speed or load.  I tracked it down to the oil pump/filter area.  Since the oil pressure is pretty constant, my guess was a tear in the oil filter flapping around.  It was not near due for a change, but oil and filter changes being about the cheapest thing I can do to this car, I changed them.  So far, the noise seems to be gone.  Worth a try.

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 Posted: 12-08-2014 10:05 pm
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Rick Willard
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Hey Tom, Kim, Gordon, and Greg,

Thanks for the input, guys.

I had a chance to disconnect the vacuum going to the brake boost. The hose seems to be in very good condition and a disconnect at the brake boost combined with a little revving of the engine resulted in a good strong suction going through the hose (no blockage), and the engine continuing to make this noise once it's warm. Darn it....

Tom, on your oil filter idea, this noise was actually evident before AND after an oil change just 45 days ago. Plus, my oil filter is mounted remotely, away from the engine, up against the passenger side frame rail. So, I'm gonna probably have to eliminate that idea, but...a good one and thanks for mentioning it, as I never considered such a thing.

Perhaps Greg's theory of a faulty thrust bearing is gaining momentum? If so, maybe it'll be the excuse I need to go ahead and build my 2.2.

This week, the weather looks good, and I should be able to replicate the noise and capture it on a decent video for review. Thanks again to all for taking the time to share some ideas.

Cheers!

Rick

Last edited on 12-08-2014 10:15 pm by Rick Willard

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 Posted: 12-12-2014 03:25 am
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Rick Willard
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Hey Guys,

Sorry this post has gotten so long. As I've said repeatedly, I'll take any insights.

Today, I pulled onto my street after driving about 80 miles, I made this video with my phone. You'll hear that I mention that the noise is "coming from the back of the engine." That includes the bell housing/transmission. You don't hear the noise as badly from right under the hood. You really hear it sitting in the driver seat.

http://www.youtube.com/attribution_link?a=uyWHqKTusfU&u=/watch%3Fv%3D-2UXOa7HjuM%26feature%3Dem-upload_owner

Hopefully this link can be copied into your browser? Thanks again, everyone!

Rick

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 Posted: 12-12-2014 04:31 am
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Tom Bradley
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The link worked, but the video was "private", so I could not access it. Can you change it to public?

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 Posted: 12-12-2014 05:57 am
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Rick Willard
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Sorry! Just fixed it. Hopefully, you can see it now? Thanks!

Rick

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 Posted: 12-12-2014 10:46 pm
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Tim Murphy
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I just listened once, just sounded like a exhaust system/muffler resonance during deceleration. Actually, the engine sounded good to me.

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 Posted: 12-12-2014 11:35 pm
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Rick Willard
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Thanks, Tim. We actually thought the same thing right off the bat. We replaced the exhaust system from the bottom of the headers to the tail pipe with a virtually brand new JHPS/Delta exhaust system. Noise remained unchanged. It's not there at all until about 10-15 minutes of running it. Then, it really gets a little loud/annoying. It sounds like a low wallowing noise and might be coming from the back of the engine or transmission tunnel. Thanks for taking the time to share a good idea!

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 Posted: 12-13-2014 12:58 am
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Tom Bradley
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Sounds like something loosening up and resonating, though exactly what is a puzzle. I do not hear any high frequency clanks like I would if it were two pieces of bare metal. So I think it would be something that is buffered with oil or grease lubricant, gasket material or rubber. Since the frequency is so low, I would expect it to be something fairly large or heavy. Possibly the exhaust system is heating something nearby, such as the transmission rear mount? I think you will have to get under the car to see if you can locate the source of the sound more exactly. It is also possible that the higher frequency sounds are getting absorbed by the carpeting and undercoat and it will sound different from underneath.

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 Posted: 12-13-2014 02:46 pm
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Jim Ketcham
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If the sound occurs while the car is not moving (previously post) then it is not drive train. My hearing is not what it used to be, but it sounds just like intake air noise from Dellorto carbs used without the air box. I had to give up on my K&N filters and return to the air box configuration because my resonant intake noise was too loud during accelerations. Unfortunately, Dellorto air boxes are getting hard to find. If I heard correctly your noise follows accels. It definitely sounds like resonance noise. Since it appears you eliminated the exhaust I vote for the intake. Either way it does not sound like engine trouble. Engine sounds pretty good.

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 Posted: 12-13-2014 03:48 pm
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Tom Bradley
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One more thought: the cabin heater core can come loose on these cars. You can check by pushing and pulling on the pair of hoses going through the fire wall. Though I have no idea what this would sound like if it was vibrating.

This is probably not useful, but I was wondering if the sound is the same with the top up and down. When I put the top up on my car, it amplifies the low frequency exhaust noise rather annoyingly. But it does this all the time, not just when wared up.

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 Posted: 12-17-2014 06:35 am
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Rick Willard
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Hi Tom and Jim and anyone following this post. Sorry if this ridiculous string has become a bit of a mess. And thanks to you guys and anyone else who has chimed in. If I explain something further that goes against your suggestions, please don't take it as a lack of gratitude for taking a few minutes to share an idea. I apprecaite it!

The heater core was interesting to me, because it is one of the only flaws with the car. The PO bypassed the heater core, due to a leak. I'll fix it soon, but in the meantime, I compared this box assembly to one I already had. They are virtually the same. I revved the engine and grabbed the core connections at the firewall...shaking it just a tiny bit...the noise didn't change at all. If THAT was the problem, the tone would have almost certainly changed a bit, and it didn't. I'll fix/replace this core soon, but...I don't expect the noise to change from that.

Jim, regarding the Dellorto K&N filter suggestion, this was interesting to me. However, if it WAS at the intake, I would almost certainly hear it pretty loudly when I'm listening crouched right over the engine. Believe it or not, the noise is louder when I'm sitting in the driver seat and the noise seems to be resonating from the transmission tunnel right next to me.

Speaking of that, the last time I drove the car, the noise was getting a tiny bit louder. I almost welcome that, so I can more easily figure it out. Tom, I agree that this needs a listen from below. I think I'm going to just get it warmed up, make sure the noise is there, and put it up on a lift to listen to this up close. While I don't know what it is, exactly, I feel pretty confident that it's coming from the back of the engine, tranny tunnel, clutch, or...something strange like that.

Thanks again to all who have shared some ideas here. Happy Holidays!

Rick

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 Posted: 12-17-2014 03:32 pm
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Jim Ketcham
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Rick,
The noise I hear really sounds like a throaty air noise. The location you describe, driver's side rear engine/transmission is where the exhaust resonator is. I recall you changed the exhaust system. Does the new one have a decent resonator. I had to replace the one that came with a free flow system from DMS because it was inadequate. I resurrected an earlier version of their resonator from a parts car and it cured my noise problem. I admit I like quiet in my old age. On a friends car we had a local muffler shop fit an extra one in before the axle and that worked also.
If I am listening to the wrong noise I apologize and my suggestions are not correct.
I think getting the car on a lift will really help. One caution though. If the lift is like mine (2 post) and unweights the axles, the exhaust clearances change and you may miss a contact point problem. I've seen people put new exhaust systems on and when the car was lowered onto its suspension the clearance change resulted in exhaust system contact giving some strange noises. Good luck and keep us posted.
Jim

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 Posted: 12-17-2014 05:10 pm
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Rick Willard
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Thanks, Jim!

I think I'll take it to the local British shop for another review. When I took it to them the first time to try to diagnose this noise, the exhaust theory immediately came up. I loved the idea because I had an extra system available that was almost brand new. The owner of the shop I mentioned (super strong British background with 4+ decades of British experience) was scratching his head, too. Because the tone of the noise remained low/unchanged and that it sounded like "air pushing through a tube," the exhaust theory seemed plausible. We were surprised that the exhaust system switch had no effect.

By the way regarding the switch, they took the previous exhaust (a 90's era DMS system in excellent condition) and replaced it with the extra one I had that was virtually brand new (just 3K miles on it before my infamous car fire of my last JH in 2007). The biggest difference between those systems is the center resonator. On the newer version, the center resonator is a longer "tube-shaped" design. All the exhaust mounts were redone in first class fashion and the install looked great, but...on the first test drive...lo and behold...the noise was still there.

Anyway, Jim...thank you again for spending a few minutes of your schedule to provide input. I'll look for an opportunity to get the car up on a rack (mindful of the 2-post/4-post lift) and listen to the noise from underneath.

Cheers!

Rick

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 Posted: 05-02-2015 07:56 pm
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Rick Willard
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Hello to anyone who commented on this string and provided me input.

I might...MIGHT...be the happiest JH owner on the planet today. I had a buddy of mine (mechanic, but not a British mechanic) look at the car. He ran a mechanic's stethoscope all over the engine and said "hey, I'm not a master of this engine, but I feel a very slight vibration coming out of the top of your distributor." We took the distributor out and frankly...it looked OK. It was leaking oil through it, but mechanically...it spun OK and seemed like it was working fine. But, the fact that it had points and was leaking oil through the inside was enough to make me go ahead and just grab a new Pertronix distributor.

I did so and installed it on a rainy day last weekend. Everything went together well, and sitting in the garage...it sounded every bit as good as my last JH engine when I installed the Pertronix. So with some clear weather today, I finally had the chance to drive the car a bit...just finished almost 50 miles. I ran it up to 95 mph or so...rock solid. And I ran it stop light to stop light for at least 20 of those miles. I did not hear the noise one single time...not once! Can you believe that?

Now, I'm not 100% convinced it's fixed just yet. But I'll tell you that in the 8 months I've owned this car, I was never able to drive it more than 20 miles under those conditions without having the car sound like it was possessed. My fingers are crossed that the problem is solved and it's going to be a GREAT summer under the sun!

Thanks again to all for your help and input.

Cheers!!

Rick

Last edited on 05-02-2015 08:00 pm by Rick Willard

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