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16173 will be entering project status...  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 12-29-2017 01:38 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Bruce, why shim the pressure relief valve, ? I assume it would increase oil pressure, but isn't that a predetermined setting from the factory, and if you have decent oil pressure why would you do that. ? I have an engine I just rebuilt and if this is an improvement then I would make the mod. but would like to understand why first.
Thanks. Brett

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 Posted: 12-29-2017 01:57 pm
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redracer
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Yes, increasing the oil pressure. The "factory" had the spring set for 55psi., which is really too low for a 7000 redline(rule of thumb is 10 psi/1000rpm. All the blow by oil goes back down into the sump.).
It's not going to hurt anything and will give you the protection at higher revs.

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 Posted: 12-29-2017 04:06 pm
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answerman
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Thanks for the explanation, Bruce (and thanks to Brett for asking why). I'll look into it when I have the distributor out. I drive pretty sedately compared to most here so it's probably not that big of an issue for me (I rarely see over 5000RPM, much less 6000RPM) but since I'll have it apart anyway it would make sense to do it now. Right now, after the top end rebuild a couple of years ago, the hot oil pressure at cruise is right about the 55 to 60 psi you mentioned.

Going back to the original question: does anyone have a size for the internal O-ring in case I do need to replace it? I have the external one already from Delta.

Last edited on 12-29-2017 04:09 pm by answerman

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 09:23 pm
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answerman
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Well, the distributor portion of things just got more complicated: more below.

First, I did get the timing belt changed to the blue Gates Racing belt, which was the first thing I wanted to do. Also, I finally joined the dark side of all you JH owners and left the belt guard off on reassembly. So, that's one thing checked off.

Now, about the distributor.

I pulled it out and I appear to have leaks from a couple of different places. First of all, the external O-rings were indeed in place, but it was still pretty oily on the shaft past the O-rings. Not sure just how much oil should be stopped by them but some is definitely getting through.

More troubling, though, is that the distributor had quite a bit of oil inside the cap. So, it appears to be leaking internally too. What complicates things is that it's not an original Lucas 25D distributor, but a Pertronix Flamethrower replacement purchased from Delta. So, there seems to be some question regarding whether there's even a seal in there, or if it's the same as the Lucas distributor. I talked to Delta today and they are going to look into it and get back to me tomorrow. I found a source for the Chicago Rawhide internal seal for the Lucas 25D, but before I start ripping things apart I want to make sure that the Pertronix distributor accepts the same seal.

Also, while I'm in there, is there a seal inside the oil pump housing that I should be worried about?

Confused? Stay tuned. And if anyone has any other suggestions, please feel free.

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 09:37 pm
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redracer
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Not sure why one would need a Falmethrower distibutor as the regular Lucas 25 or 45 with the Petronix inside work fine?

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 09:40 pm
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answerman
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It was just a simpler solution at the time, Bruce. I knew I wanted to replace the distributor anyway and it was just easier to have Delta get me the Pertronix distributor than to buy a new/rebuild Lucas 25 and install the Pertronix module.

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 09:46 pm
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redracer
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Rebuilding the Lucas distributors is fairly easy, so if you still have it you may want to go that route.

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 10:07 pm
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answerman
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We'll see what Delta has to say first. Also, about my other question: is there a seal of some sort inside the oil pump/aux shaft housing that I should be worried about while I'm in there?

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 Posted: 01-08-2018 10:41 pm
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redracer
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yes; you already have the Chicago Rawhide # for the inner seal(according to your earlier email) and the outer "O" ring is easy to replace. If all this seems too much, I'll be happy to do it.(I'm sure Mike D'Olimpio at Delta could do it as well)

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 01:15 pm
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Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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I must be missing something with my Distributor's, I have taken them apart, in the past, and even have a spare on the shelf, and the only O-ring I have come across is on the outside dizzy body, None inside.... ???. Can you share a photo of this elusive little bugger.

Thanks . Brett

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 03:33 pm
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redracer
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The inner item is a seal, not an "O" ring. It is at the bottom of the interior (visible after removing the centrifugal plates, etc. ) where the shaft protrudes through the hole.
Now, many of the early distributors did NOT even have a seal as these same distributors were used in other vehicles that had the distributor mounted vertically so any "dripping" oil would go back down the shaft and not be a problem. I believe Tim Engel has covered this topic earlier. Please use the "SEARCH" tab at the top of the JHPS forum to help in the future:
The shaft spins on 2 steel bushings and the seals I use to replace them need to have the upper steel bushing pressed down slightly. It is imperative that the top of the seal be BELOW the bottom "shelf" of the inner distributor, or the rubbing from the large thin metal washer above it will cause it to be ruined.
here is Jim Ketcham's answer:
im Ketcham
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You need an internal oil seal in your distributor. This has been covered in past posts here.
From previous post from Mark Rosenbaum:
DISTRIBUTOR INTERNAL OIL SEAL

Description: Shaft seal, 0.50" shaft, 0.75" bore, 0.125" height.

Material: Fuel- and Oil-resistant.

Used on: Lucas 23D, 25D distributors.

OEM P/Ns: Jensen: None. Lucas: Unknown.

Source: Chicago Rawhide CR4912 (exact replacement). [Verified fit.]

Source: Transcom TCM 13x19x3VG (nearest metric size).

Source: McMaster-Carr 9505K17 (different seal style). [Verified fit.]

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 04:22 pm
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answerman
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Right. That's the post I found that gave me the Chicago Rawhide part number. In the meantime, I haven't heard back from Delta yet so we'll see what they have to say.

I also noticed that there may be a leak at the oil cooler sandwich (not sure if it's a leak or if it's just oil getting there from another leak) so I'll be picking up a Fram 3682 oil filter to extract the rubber gasket from it per Brett's suggestion a while back. Another "as long as I'm in there" project.

Last edited on 01-09-2018 04:24 pm by answerman

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 04:26 pm
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answerman
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And... not to beat a dead horse, but I'll ask this one more time: is there a seal of some sort inside the oil pump/aux shaft housing (NOT inside the distributor) that I should be worried about while I'm in there?

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 04:41 pm
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redracer
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There is no seal, "O" ring INSIDE the hole on the "auxiliary oil pump housing. Just the 2 for the distributor, the outer "O" ring and the inner seal.
As for your possible leaking by the sandwich between the oil filter and the main housing, it may very likely be the square cut "O" ring on the sandwich located on the opposite side from the oil filter--DELTA carries these.

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 05:47 pm
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answerman
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Thanks, Bruce. That's the clarification I was looking for regarding the auxiliary housing. Regarding the oil cooler sandwich, that's what I was referring to: according to Brett, you can pick up a Fram oil filter and remove the rubber ring gasket from it to use as the square cut gasket between the oil cooler donut and the main housing.

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 Posted: 01-09-2018 09:11 pm
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answerman
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Well, just talked to Delta: the initial diagnosis is that the Pertronix distributor doesn't have an internal seal. So, as Jamie Hyneman would say, "well, there's your problem!". Mike at Delta is looking at solutions yet.

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 Posted: 01-11-2018 06:25 pm
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answerman
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And it's final: the Pertronix distributor has no internal seal, nor does it have an allowance for one. So, we're back to the drawing board. I need to look through my boxes o'parts and find my original Lucas 25D and see about having it rebuilt. If I'm going to all this trouble, I want everything in there to be as new and fresh as possible.

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 Posted: 01-12-2018 04:26 am
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answerman
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Well that was easy! Ms. J's original Lucas 25D was in the first box I looked in. So, next step is to decide if I want to rebuild it myself or if I want the pros to do it. Like I said in the last post, I want to get all of this as "new" as possible so that I don't have to revisit it any time soon.

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 Posted: 01-12-2018 04:42 am
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Esprit2
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Jeff at Advanced Distributors can rebuild it for you. Also talk to him about modifying the Pertronix distributor to accept a seal.

Jeff is very good, but he's opinionated. I can already hear him insisting that no other Lucas distributor needs a shaft seal, so the Lotus-Lucas doesn't either. Just politely let him know that the Lotus unit is the only one mounted horizontally, and it does need a seal.

http://advanceddistributors.com/wordpress1/
He's in Shakopee, MN.

Regards,
Tim Engel

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 Posted: 01-17-2018 09:21 pm
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answerman
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Sent the distributor off to Greg at the club store: he didn't have any cores for rebuild in stock. Having it rebuilt by Advanced Distributor with the proper seals, etc. and also a Pertronix II ignitor.

While I was on the phone with Delta, I did have them send me a new square cut O-ring for the oil cooler sandwich, so hopefully between that and the distributor I can finally solve these leaks.

Last edited on 01-17-2018 10:35 pm by answerman

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