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Jensen15056
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Folks,

I'm new to  the JHPS, but I've owned my Jensen roadster, 15056, since 1987 when I bought it from the original owner.  I've taken good care of it over the years, and it's still mostly original equipment.  But it's looking quite worn.  It's needs new paint, upholstery, rugs, top, tonneau, etc.  Sadly, I don't have the time or knowledge to renovate the car myself, so I'm going to take it to a place here in So Cal to do the work. 

I was wondering if you might do me the favor of giving me some recommendations about what mods and upgrades I might have done.  I already know that I want to have Dellorto carbs and Panasport 15" wheels.  I'd like to improve the suspension, and Greg has recommended to me Superpro bushings and Bilstein shocks.  Any other ideas?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Paul K.
El Segundo, CA
 

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Jensen15056
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Additional pix of my "pride & joy."

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Jensen15056
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Another pic.

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Jensen Healey
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Sway bars.

Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Welcome to the boards, nice car.

I agree with Greg do the bushings and shocks as well as sway bars front and back you wont believe the differance in handling takes it from a bit muchy to flat and solid, the Dell's are a good choice as well they really give the car a kick, alot depends on funds but with what you mention these mod's are a good starting point.

Good Luck Brett

Jensen15056
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Thanks for the welcome and for the suggestions!  I'm interested in all the inputs I can get.

Regards,

Paul K.

JodyKerr
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So my first question is what do you want to get out of it? You want your baby to just be refreshed or are you looking for more speed/power?

 

Jody

jcdean
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The real question is "how deep are your pockets?"

2.2 litre stroker, up the compression, new header and exhaust, and a big brake kit for the front with a disc conversion in the rear.  These are all things I have planned.

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Lol, yep. That truly is the real question.

 

Just heard that the prices on the 2.2L cranks went up again. I'm kicking myself for not having bought one earlier.

chiromaster
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If you want serious power just drop in a V6...Yeah, I'm just kidding!

Jensen15056
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Jody- Mainly refreshed, but would love more power.

JC- Deep pockets? Not real deep but I love the car, will never sell it, and I'm willing to go to some expense. One thing I'm not going to do is get a new engine.  The engine is the car's soul, right? I don't want to mess with that.  But willing to consider mods. Would a new header and exhaust system make  a big difference?  What about high-compression cylinders?

"Recommended upgrades" is hopefully an interesting discussion...

Thanks for any inputs,

Paul K.

 

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ok, let's dive in then. A good source of info is this article: http://www.jensenhealey.com/html/eng.html

This assumes you're starting with a truly stock US equipped car and you retain the 907 block.

Stage 1:

Green brake pads (Pete swears by them)

Cooling air scoop,

front and rear sway bar kit

Pertronics based distributor

magnecor 8mm plug wires

high output flamethrower coil

oversized radiator

oversized oil cooler

4 into 1 exhaust header

Stage 2: (Stage 1 +)

Dellorto carbs and intake manifold (40mm)

volvo front caliper modification

Stainless steel valves/guides/etc.

laycock j-type overdrive added to stock 4speed.

104 cam shafts

Stage 3:

lightened flywheel

107 cam shafts (or 104/107 combination for the faint of heart. :)

2.2 L crank conversion

ported/tuned head

wilwood big brake kit

rims/tires to fit brake kit.

45mm Dellortos.

Stage 4:

crank fired ignition

fuel injection

Supra 5 speed conversion

rear disk brakes (the kit does exist, I've seen it)

clean underwear.

 

Admittedly some of these items are mix/match based on preference, but when you scale it on a complexity/cost curve, this is the layout. If you don't fear engine changeouts you can swap in a Lotus Chargecool 910 engine and tear your differential apart. :)

 

Jody

 

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Another thing to consider.  You can purchase a 912 High Compression engine from Lotus Bits in the UK for $2600.00.  You would have shipping on top of that cost and the frame and oilpan would have to be modified.

This gets you the stroker crank, pistons, and the late model improved heads. Add a pair of Delorto 45's and an intake manifold at the same time for around $750.00 and save some on seperate shipping.

The math makes this attractive, but I have never gotten a firm quote on shipping for something like this.  I had a body kit shipped in from Korea once and that ran me over $600. I'm betting this might be a bit more due to the weight.

http://www.lotusbits.com/esprit_engine.html

Jensen15056
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Jody- Very nice list of stuff!  Thanks, this is something I can go over and consider.  'May have questions about some of the items. But very helpful.

JC-  The 912 is tempting, but I don't think I'm going to go there.  Thanks.

Paul K.

subwoofer
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I think Jody got the cams slightly mixed up, 104 are the long duration/high lift cams, while the 107 is shorter duration (really the Esprit Turbo cam) and thus "milder". In some circuits, even the 104 is considered "mild". If you want to stay with carburetors don't hesitate to go for a set of 45 Dell'Ortos, there is no comparison to the Strombergs.

If you decide to open up the engine, you really should up the compression no matter what other upgrades you perform. The later stock 907s with 9.5:1 compression is a lot more responsive, http://sjsportscars.co.uk have 11:1 pistons for the 2.0 if you wish to run wilder cams.

Poly bushings and Bilsteins are never wrong, as far as brakes go, contact Martin Shirley of the JOC in the UK for parts for fitting vented discs with modified M16 calipers under the stock wheels without massive spacers. He may need a bit of convincing to sell parts only, though.

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Joachim

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Crank-fired ignition should be moved up in importance. Doing this helps performance AND it is a safety item. No more distributor sitting under the carbs to light fuel leaks on fire.

The Megajolt ECU is $162.00 and the EDIS bits can be had for around $50 - $60 on ebay.
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Why run crank-fired ignition?


  1. Hotter spark: The multiple coils have more time to recharge and the elimination of the additional spark gap that exists inside a regular distributor cap.

  2. More efficient optimized advance curves possible: No longer relying on simple rotating advance weights, springs and vacuum pots to determine the advance curve.

  3. Elimination of oil leak: By removing the distributor and plugging the resulting hole there is no longer a horizontal rotating distributor shaft that must be sealed.

  4. Easier timing belt replacement: Since the ignition timing is no longer dependent on the position of the gear that drives the oil pump.

  5. No distributor cap or rotor to replace: Less hassle trying to fumble around under the carbs and intake manifold.

  6. No spark source to ignite fuel leaks: Removing the distributor with sparks jumping around inside the cap from under the carburetors.


The first two benefits means the engine is more efficient, runs smoother, and starts better. Everyone I have spoken with who has done this conversion is always impressed with how much smoother the engine runs and how much better it starts. The third, fourth, and fifth points makes long term maintenance easier. The fourth is the BEST reason to do this conversion. It means the engine is SAFER! Much less chance that a stray fuel leak can cause a fire because the primary ignition source from the electrically active distributor is removed as a possible fire starter.

Last edited on 05-29-2011 07:50 am by StevenD57

Jensen15056
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Thanks guys for the inputs, but truth be told I wouldn't know a crank-fired ignition from a rotisserie barbeque!  I'm in awe and more than a little envious of the technical knowledge of you guys.  But I'm looking for the basic upgrades that I should be sure to do. 

It looks like I'd want to include most of Jody's "Stage 2" items for sure, but should I get 45 mm Dellortos instead of the 40 mm? What difference should I expect? 

Actually, the crank-fired ignition sounds like a good idea, Steve.  What's the performance improvement I could expect?

Subwoof- I looked at your blog on your renovation.  I wish I could do for my car what you're doing for yours, but don't have the knowledge.  Why would 104 cam shafts be something I'd want? Would other mods be necessary, too, like new valves or pistons?

That's all my dumb questions for now.

Paul K.

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Joachim,

Thanks for the correction. In my brain the number of the cam should go higher as it gets more aggressive, I always reverse the #s. And +1 on the brakes from Martin. I'd love to get my hands on a set.

Steve,

The list has nothing do do with importance. It's an upgrade path based on complexity/cost/performance. While I agree with your arguments on the crank fired ignition (which I why I'm presently putting one together) it's not a project for the uninitiated. Basically, I listed the easy bits first, and the more complex/expensive bits later.

Jody

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It's easy enough to go with the 45's instead of the 40's and you can always jet them down if need be. With carbs, providing you're not putting too much on the car, bigger is always better.

You can fit the 104 cams easily to a stock engine. Going with the oversized stainless valves will offer additional improvement to the breathing of the engine, but does require machining the head.

We haven't documented a real "performance improvement" with the crank fired ignition yet. Steve has seen that his car starts much more easily and that he is getting better gas mileage. If you are interested in the crank fired ignition I will be putting in an order with the machinist for the custom parts soon. The bigger the order the less each separate piece will cost.

And they aren't dumb questions. :) We all started somewhere.

 

Jody

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JodyKerr wrote:
And they aren't dumb questions. :) We all started somewhere.


I'll second that, Jody! All it takes is time, a bit of guts, a darn stubborn attitude (No way I'm giving up!), and lots and lots of Bandaids - your knuckles will take a beating. :-)

As far as the 104s go, they are roughly the same duration as the C cams in the stock Jensen-Healey 907, but higher lift. If you think revs are fun, go for it, if you want lowdown torque you should look for E or 107 cams.

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Joachim

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JodyKerr wrote: It's easy enough to go with the 45's instead of the 40's and you can always jet them down if need be. With carbs, providing you're not putting too much on the car, bigger is always better.

Jody
When it comes to carbs and the size of the throttle plate this is an erroneous assumption. Yes, you can fit smaller chokes but if you end up choking a DHLA45 or DCOE45 down to 32mm then you are not got to have the drive-ability you would with a properly sized carb. A 45mm carb is probably ok for a 2.2L engine but it WAY overkill for a 2.0L engine.

Here are a couple of quotes from a guy who has done lots of work with different size throttle bodies fitted to various BMW M10 motors (used in 2002 and 320i):

"Another problem with this setup was the size of the ITBs.  I had ordered 45mm ITBs even though my own research had indicated that 40mm would be a better size.  I allowed myself to get talked into the 45mm TBs by a sales person who told me it would be "fine" and "everyone" uses this size and "EFI does not have the same problems with large TBs as carbs do".  All this was wrong.The 45mm TBs are too big for a moderately modified M10 engine.  This produced a really bad behavior at very small throttle openings.  The throttle was basically "digital" at low engine RPMs.  You only needed about 1/8 of the pedal travel for daily driving, anything over this and you were already at the 100% load point for the engine.  This was extremely fatiguing for a daily driver.  You just rest your foot on throttle and the engine started to race.  This issue also made it extremely difficult to tune, I will describe this on the tuning page"
After he switched to the 40mm throttle bodies he said:

"The 40mm TBs are the perfect size for the engine.  Throttle response and sensitivity are greatly improved over the 45mm TBs.  I can take the engine up to 6500 RPM and still not see any reduction in the MAP signal due to the smaller TBs."

You really should read the following article where he does more analysis of the behavior:

http://77e21.info/mstuning_tbsizing.htm



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Here's the scoop on carburetors.

The Jensen Healey was fitted with DHLA40's with 32mm chokes. Lotus OEM Dellortos for the 907 are DHLA45E's with 35,  36,  or 38 mm chokes,  depending upon the model year and overall set-up.

So what does this mean? It means that they not only all work on the 907 motor they were all factory fitted carburetors.

So what's the difference. With each carb set up it's the choke size and jets. The 907 engine was built to spend most of it's time near the rev limiter, and not in the lower range. As you inrease the size of the choke the high RPM performance increases. The dowqnside to this is that standard driveability tends to wane. So there's a minor trade off here, and it totally depends on how the car is to be driven.

From what I understand the DHLA45E's with a 36mm choke are really fun on a JH, stock or modified.

Jody

 

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Hi Jody, I have original equipment Dellortos and they have 35mm chokes. They have progression drillings that are specific to the car. Lotus/ Jensen never got these working properly and they had flat spots.

When the engine was fitted with stock cams I used 33mm chokes on the advice of Eurocarb. Smaller chokes increase the air velocity and atomize the fuel better.  They were a good match and it gave great drivability.

Now that the 107 cams are installed I returned to 35mm chokes to take advantage of the top end.

Driving style is everything when making modifications. If you always have the hammer down, go for the huge carbs and cams. If you want a pleasant car to drive with smooth power throughout the rev range then you'll need to be very sensitive to torque when making decisions.

Kurt

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This may sound stupid, but how would you know what cams and which Dellorto's(40 or 45's) are on your car? I'm asking because I bought Mick Coleman's JH, and I don't know what he did to the car.

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Bogie07 wrote: This may sound stupid, but how would you know what cams and which Dellorto's(40 or 45's) are on your car? I'm asking because I bought Mick Coleman's JH, and I don't know what he did to the car.The size of the Dellortos should be marked on the body of the carbs. I believe it is stamped into a flat area somewhere and not on the bottom of the carb body.

The only way to find out about the cams would be to pull the cam covers and possibly the gears. They might be stamped or otherwise identified on the end of the cams. Other than that you might have to use a degree wheel and measuring device (dial indicator) to find the lift and duration.

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Concerning the LAYCOCK TYPE-J OD:

Is the drop in RPM, using the Laycock Type J OD unit less than, equal to, or greater than switching to a 5-Speed tranny?

Can any marque Type J be used? Looking on e-bay, there are plenty of Volvo type -J  always up for sale.

Looking at the procedure to put a Volvo type-J on a TR6, it appears that the shade tree machanic or the faint of heart might be out of their league. Has any club member/board poster done this upgrade, either by themselves or professionally? The only person I  know of that has done this was a BRIT than came over for one of the Jensen East meets.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

PK

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Paul Koehler wrote: Concerning the LAYCOCK TYPE-J OD:

Is the drop in RPM, using the Laycock Type J OD unit less than, equal to, or greater than switching to a 5-Speed tranny?

Can any marque Type J be used? Looking on e-bay, there are plenty of Volvo type -J  always up for sale.

Looking at the procedure to put a Volvo type-J on a TR6, it appears that the shade tree machanic or the faint of heart might be out of their league. Has any club member/board poster done this upgrade, either by themselves or professionally? The only person I  know of that has done this was a BRIT than came over for one of the Jensen East meets.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

PK
You have to completely disassemble the transmission to change the output shaft which is the main shaft inside the transmission. The output shaft is different to be able to drive the OD system. I think there are eccentric or splines cut into the shaft which are not there on the regular 4spd transmission.

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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the inputs and comments!  I thought I owned it to you to list what I'm currently looking at for restoration and upgrades.  Many of your suggestions are included, as well as stuff we didn't talk about relative to paint & body work, seats, and stuff:

Engine
o   Dellorto carburetors & manifold (45 mm)
o   104 cam shafts
o   Cooling air scoop
o   Oversized radiator
o   Oversized oil cooler
o   Engine checked and any necessary repairs made
o   Engine painted (?)
o   Engine compartment painted
o   4 into 1 exhaust header

Electrical
o   Magnecor 8mm  plug wires
o   Crank-fired ignition (Megajolt ECU)
o   Fix turn signals

Suspension & brakes
o   Front & rear sway bars
o   Leaning fixed (car leans to driver’s side)
o   Bilstein shocks
o   SuperPro bushings
o   15” Panasport wheels
o   What kind of tires???
o   Brakes (rear disk?)

Interior
o   Dashboard wood grain (?)
o   Sun shades replaced
o   Seat belts—have a modern system installed
o   New seats, upholstery
o   Silver trim around instruments replaced
o   Carpets replaced
o   New steering wheel
o   Glove compartment fit and locking improved
o   Heater / ventilation system repaired

Paint & Body Work
o   Bonnet fit
o   Check floor pans for rust, paint with rust preventative paint
o   Exterior—New black paint, nice but doesn’t have to be concourse quality
o   Engine compartment repainted
o   Top replaced
o   Tonneau replaced
o   Top boot replaced

Miscellaneous
o   New door key
o   Pin for tonneau cover on driver’s side of dashboard is broken


So this is the list that I'm thinking about going to the restorer with.  Any stupid stuff?  Missed opportunities?

Thanks,
Paul


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Are you Paul Koehler? If so I guess you already have a copy of my document. :)
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Last edited on 06-05-2011 07:09 am by StevenD57

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LSD The poms do one for Vauxhall Firenzas
Gripper Diffs

Jensen15056
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Steve,

I am not Paul Koehler.  I'm another Paul K, Paul Killingsworth, not nearly as knowledgeable.

Paul K.

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OK, then if you send me a PM with your E-mail address or reply to the PM I sent you a while ago I will send you my 16page pdf document that has all of the information on the crank-fired ignition conversion.

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Jody...tell memoe about the rear brake conversion to discs, please. Emay to me at mfsjr2@comcast.net

Frank Schwartz

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Paul,

I think that's a great list!

Based on what i see there you should add some decent pep to the engine while keeping it as an easy driver.

Keep in mind that the crank fired unit requires custom machined bits and a bunch of fiddling. I would suggest that you get the main rebuild done using a distributor (fitted with a pertronics) and later go for the conversion if you want it. But, that's just my opinion.

Jody

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Malcolm,

I've seen pictures of those lsd diffs, but never in person. I don't think very many of them made it over to the US.

Frank,

I know very little about the rear brake conversion other than it exists and I have seen some of the parts. It is not presently offered for sale.

Jody

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JodyKerr wrote: Paul,

Keep in mind that the crank fired unit requires custom machined bits and a bunch of fiddling. I would suggest that you get the main rebuild done using a distributor (fitted with a pertronics) and later go for the conversion if you want it. But, that's just my opinion.

Jody

The Pertonix bits are just as expensive (maybe slightly more) as the ECU to control the crank-fired ignition. There are only 6 - 8 wires to run for the crank-fired ignition and bolting on the VR sensor stuff.

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Steve,

Give it a freaking rest already. They are not the same, and your selective comparisons and freak out statements are starting to really wear thin. I think the crank fired ignition is cool but Jensen Healeys and Loti have been successfully running for years without it.

Rebuilt distributor with pertronics set up including distributor, pertronics, coil and plug wires from Jeff @ Advanced Distributors = $325.00.
Time to install = 1 hour. @65.00/hr install rate = $65.00
Total cost = $390.00

Cost for crank fired system:
Custom machined bits $225.00
Ford Edis Kit $25.00 (on ebay)
Megajolt lite $162
Vr sensor and wheel $ 50-100
Plug wires $13.00
Blanking plug for distributor: $24.00
Edis to megajolt cable $50
Total parts cost: $549
Time to install 3 hours. @65/hr install rate = $195
Total Cost = $744

Now, yes you may be able to source parts in a junk yard for less $ but you have to account for the value of time it takes to locate and remove them. Also, you need to account for shipping costs which can easily boost the price differential by >$50.00.

When you are all done with all of this work you have spent twice as much money for an unsubstantiated improvement in the performance of the vehicle.

You need to quit putting so much icing on this particular cupcake, it's not getting any sweeter.

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Everybody,

Sorry I've been out of the loop for the last week--it's not right when work gets in the way of fun stuff.  Thanks for the comments and let me know if you have any more suggestions.  I'm hoping to get #15056 into the shop soon and get the process started.  I'm really looking forward to it, since I've been waiting years to do this restoration!

I'll plan on making one of the monthly meetings in Costa Mesa and meeting some of you guys.  In the meantime, I'll keep you apprised of any developments in the process.

Paul K.



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