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Major upgrades recommended by JH community  Rating:  Rating
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 Posted: 05-30-2011 09:17 pm
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subwoofer
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JodyKerr wrote:
And they aren't dumb questions. :) We all started somewhere.


I'll second that, Jody! All it takes is time, a bit of guts, a darn stubborn attitude (No way I'm giving up!), and lots and lots of Bandaids - your knuckles will take a beating. :-)

As far as the 104s go, they are roughly the same duration as the C cams in the stock Jensen-Healey 907, but higher lift. If you think revs are fun, go for it, if you want lowdown torque you should look for E or 107 cams.

--
Joachim

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 Posted: 05-31-2011 12:39 am
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StevenD57
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JodyKerr wrote: It's easy enough to go with the 45's instead of the 40's and you can always jet them down if need be. With carbs, providing you're not putting too much on the car, bigger is always better.

Jody
When it comes to carbs and the size of the throttle plate this is an erroneous assumption. Yes, you can fit smaller chokes but if you end up choking a DHLA45 or DCOE45 down to 32mm then you are not got to have the drive-ability you would with a properly sized carb. A 45mm carb is probably ok for a 2.2L engine but it WAY overkill for a 2.0L engine.

Here are a couple of quotes from a guy who has done lots of work with different size throttle bodies fitted to various BMW M10 motors (used in 2002 and 320i):

"Another problem with this setup was the size of the ITBs.  I had ordered 45mm ITBs even though my own research had indicated that 40mm would be a better size.  I allowed myself to get talked into the 45mm TBs by a sales person who told me it would be "fine" and "everyone" uses this size and "EFI does not have the same problems with large TBs as carbs do".  All this was wrong.The 45mm TBs are too big for a moderately modified M10 engine.  This produced a really bad behavior at very small throttle openings.  The throttle was basically "digital" at low engine RPMs.  You only needed about 1/8 of the pedal travel for daily driving, anything over this and you were already at the 100% load point for the engine.  This was extremely fatiguing for a daily driver.  You just rest your foot on throttle and the engine started to race.  This issue also made it extremely difficult to tune, I will describe this on the tuning page"
After he switched to the 40mm throttle bodies he said:

"The 40mm TBs are the perfect size for the engine.  Throttle response and sensitivity are greatly improved over the 45mm TBs.  I can take the engine up to 6500 RPM and still not see any reduction in the MAP signal due to the smaller TBs."

You really should read the following article where he does more analysis of the behavior:

http://77e21.info/mstuning_tbsizing.htm



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 Posted: 05-31-2011 10:18 am
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JodyKerr
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Here's the scoop on carburetors.

The Jensen Healey was fitted with DHLA40's with 32mm chokes. Lotus OEM Dellortos for the 907 are DHLA45E's with 35,  36,  or 38 mm chokes,  depending upon the model year and overall set-up.

So what does this mean? It means that they not only all work on the 907 motor they were all factory fitted carburetors.

So what's the difference. With each carb set up it's the choke size and jets. The 907 engine was built to spend most of it's time near the rev limiter, and not in the lower range. As you inrease the size of the choke the high RPM performance increases. The dowqnside to this is that standard driveability tends to wane. So there's a minor trade off here, and it totally depends on how the car is to be driven.

From what I understand the DHLA45E's with a 36mm choke are really fun on a JH, stock or modified.

Jody

 

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 Posted: 05-31-2011 05:30 pm
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Jensen Healey
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Hi Jody, I have original equipment Dellortos and they have 35mm chokes. They have progression drillings that are specific to the car. Lotus/ Jensen never got these working properly and they had flat spots.

When the engine was fitted with stock cams I used 33mm chokes on the advice of Eurocarb. Smaller chokes increase the air velocity and atomize the fuel better.  They were a good match and it gave great drivability.

Now that the 107 cams are installed I returned to 35mm chokes to take advantage of the top end.

Driving style is everything when making modifications. If you always have the hammer down, go for the huge carbs and cams. If you want a pleasant car to drive with smooth power throughout the rev range then you'll need to be very sensitive to torque when making decisions.

Kurt

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 Posted: 05-31-2011 09:34 pm
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Bogie07
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This may sound stupid, but how would you know what cams and which Dellorto's(40 or 45's) are on your car? I'm asking because I bought Mick Coleman's JH, and I don't know what he did to the car.

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 Posted: 05-31-2011 09:41 pm
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StevenD57
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Bogie07 wrote: This may sound stupid, but how would you know what cams and which Dellorto's(40 or 45's) are on your car? I'm asking because I bought Mick Coleman's JH, and I don't know what he did to the car.The size of the Dellortos should be marked on the body of the carbs. I believe it is stamped into a flat area somewhere and not on the bottom of the carb body.

The only way to find out about the cams would be to pull the cam covers and possibly the gears. They might be stamped or otherwise identified on the end of the cams. Other than that you might have to use a degree wheel and measuring device (dial indicator) to find the lift and duration.

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 Posted: 06-01-2011 02:05 am
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Paul Koehler
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Concerning the LAYCOCK TYPE-J OD:

Is the drop in RPM, using the Laycock Type J OD unit less than, equal to, or greater than switching to a 5-Speed tranny?

Can any marque Type J be used? Looking on e-bay, there are plenty of Volvo type -J  always up for sale.

Looking at the procedure to put a Volvo type-J on a TR6, it appears that the shade tree machanic or the faint of heart might be out of their league. Has any club member/board poster done this upgrade, either by themselves or professionally? The only person I  know of that has done this was a BRIT than came over for one of the Jensen East meets.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

PK

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 Posted: 06-01-2011 02:14 am
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StevenD57
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Paul Koehler wrote: Concerning the LAYCOCK TYPE-J OD:

Is the drop in RPM, using the Laycock Type J OD unit less than, equal to, or greater than switching to a 5-Speed tranny?

Can any marque Type J be used? Looking on e-bay, there are plenty of Volvo type -J  always up for sale.

Looking at the procedure to put a Volvo type-J on a TR6, it appears that the shade tree machanic or the faint of heart might be out of their league. Has any club member/board poster done this upgrade, either by themselves or professionally? The only person I  know of that has done this was a BRIT than came over for one of the Jensen East meets.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

PK
You have to completely disassemble the transmission to change the output shaft which is the main shaft inside the transmission. The output shaft is different to be able to drive the OD system. I think there are eccentric or splines cut into the shaft which are not there on the regular 4spd transmission.

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 Posted: 06-05-2011 06:38 am
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Jensen15056
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Hi Guys,

Thanks for the inputs and comments!  I thought I owned it to you to list what I'm currently looking at for restoration and upgrades.  Many of your suggestions are included, as well as stuff we didn't talk about relative to paint & body work, seats, and stuff:

Engine
o   Dellorto carburetors & manifold (45 mm)
o   104 cam shafts
o   Cooling air scoop
o   Oversized radiator
o   Oversized oil cooler
o   Engine checked and any necessary repairs made
o   Engine painted (?)
o   Engine compartment painted
o   4 into 1 exhaust header

Electrical
o   Magnecor 8mm  plug wires
o   Crank-fired ignition (Megajolt ECU)
o   Fix turn signals

Suspension & brakes
o   Front & rear sway bars
o   Leaning fixed (car leans to driver’s side)
o   Bilstein shocks
o   SuperPro bushings
o   15” Panasport wheels
o   What kind of tires???
o   Brakes (rear disk?)

Interior
o   Dashboard wood grain (?)
o   Sun shades replaced
o   Seat belts—have a modern system installed
o   New seats, upholstery
o   Silver trim around instruments replaced
o   Carpets replaced
o   New steering wheel
o   Glove compartment fit and locking improved
o   Heater / ventilation system repaired

Paint & Body Work
o   Bonnet fit
o   Check floor pans for rust, paint with rust preventative paint
o   Exterior—New black paint, nice but doesn’t have to be concourse quality
o   Engine compartment repainted
o   Top replaced
o   Tonneau replaced
o   Top boot replaced

Miscellaneous
o   New door key
o   Pin for tonneau cover on driver’s side of dashboard is broken


So this is the list that I'm thinking about going to the restorer with.  Any stupid stuff?  Missed opportunities?

Thanks,
Paul


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 Posted: 06-05-2011 06:42 am
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StevenD57
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Are you Paul Koehler? If so I guess you already have a copy of my document. :)
--
Steve

Last edited on 06-05-2011 07:09 am by StevenD57

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 Posted: 06-08-2011 10:57 am
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malcolm
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LSD The poms do one for Vauxhall Firenzas
Gripper Diffs

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 Posted: 06-08-2011 05:26 pm
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Jensen15056
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Steve,

I am not Paul Koehler.  I'm another Paul K, Paul Killingsworth, not nearly as knowledgeable.

Paul K.

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 Posted: 06-08-2011 06:32 pm
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StevenD57
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OK, then if you send me a PM with your E-mail address or reply to the PM I sent you a while ago I will send you my 16page pdf document that has all of the information on the crank-fired ignition conversion.

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 Posted: 06-12-2011 09:37 am
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Frank Schwartz
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Jody...tell memoe about the rear brake conversion to discs, please. Emay to me at mfsjr2@comcast.net

Frank Schwartz

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 Posted: 06-12-2011 03:21 pm
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JodyKerr
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Paul,

I think that's a great list!

Based on what i see there you should add some decent pep to the engine while keeping it as an easy driver.

Keep in mind that the crank fired unit requires custom machined bits and a bunch of fiddling. I would suggest that you get the main rebuild done using a distributor (fitted with a pertronics) and later go for the conversion if you want it. But, that's just my opinion.

Jody

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 Posted: 06-12-2011 03:23 pm
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JodyKerr
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Malcolm,

I've seen pictures of those lsd diffs, but never in person. I don't think very many of them made it over to the US.

Frank,

I know very little about the rear brake conversion other than it exists and I have seen some of the parts. It is not presently offered for sale.

Jody

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 Posted: 06-12-2011 03:39 pm
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StevenD57
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JodyKerr wrote: Paul,

Keep in mind that the crank fired unit requires custom machined bits and a bunch of fiddling. I would suggest that you get the main rebuild done using a distributor (fitted with a pertronics) and later go for the conversion if you want it. But, that's just my opinion.

Jody

The Pertonix bits are just as expensive (maybe slightly more) as the ECU to control the crank-fired ignition. There are only 6 - 8 wires to run for the crank-fired ignition and bolting on the VR sensor stuff.

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 Posted: 06-12-2011 04:46 pm
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JodyKerr
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Steve,

Give it a freaking rest already. They are not the same, and your selective comparisons and freak out statements are starting to really wear thin. I think the crank fired ignition is cool but Jensen Healeys and Loti have been successfully running for years without it.

Rebuilt distributor with pertronics set up including distributor, pertronics, coil and plug wires from Jeff @ Advanced Distributors = $325.00.
Time to install = 1 hour. @65.00/hr install rate = $65.00
Total cost = $390.00

Cost for crank fired system:
Custom machined bits $225.00
Ford Edis Kit $25.00 (on ebay)
Megajolt lite $162
Vr sensor and wheel $ 50-100
Plug wires $13.00
Blanking plug for distributor: $24.00
Edis to megajolt cable $50
Total parts cost: $549
Time to install 3 hours. @65/hr install rate = $195
Total Cost = $744

Now, yes you may be able to source parts in a junk yard for less $ but you have to account for the value of time it takes to locate and remove them. Also, you need to account for shipping costs which can easily boost the price differential by >$50.00.

When you are all done with all of this work you have spent twice as much money for an unsubstantiated improvement in the performance of the vehicle.

You need to quit putting so much icing on this particular cupcake, it's not getting any sweeter.

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 Posted: 06-18-2011 04:39 am
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Jensen15056
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Everybody,

Sorry I've been out of the loop for the last week--it's not right when work gets in the way of fun stuff.  Thanks for the comments and let me know if you have any more suggestions.  I'm hoping to get #15056 into the shop soon and get the process started.  I'm really looking forward to it, since I've been waiting years to do this restoration!

I'll plan on making one of the monthly meetings in Costa Mesa and meeting some of you guys.  In the meantime, I'll keep you apprised of any developments in the process.

Paul K.

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