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jarnol123
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I replaced the crane allison ignition with a pertronix ignitor. I also have a new flame thrower coil.

I still have no spark.  I took the dizzy cap off and left the ignition on and manually cranked the engine. The rotor went all the way around and still no spark.

I checked all the connections and they look fine. I'm confused. Please help!

 

 

 

jarnol123
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OK I ran a piece of wire from the +ve battery terminal to the Coil to ensure I have 12 V..OK...still no spark when I turn over the engine.....I noticed that there is a black and white wire that goes to the -ve of the coil ...the other end isn't attached to anything ...what should that wire be attached to??

jarnol123
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Here's some pics of the solenoid and coil..

Attachment: Picture 025.jpg (Downloaded 56 times)

jarnol123
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BTW: Anyone know what this is?

Attachment: Picture 030.jpg (Downloaded 72 times)

Jensen Healey
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First of all, did you buy a new rotor?

jarnol123
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yes

Jensen Healey
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That thing with the bent contacts is an oil pressure sending unit. It's not stock. The stock setup is a small tube that carries oil all the way to the guage.

jarnol123
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Ok thanks

jarnol123
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the coil...

Attachment: Picture 026.jpg (Downloaded 79 times)

Jensen Healey
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Take the white with slate wire off the negative terminal. It provides 12 volts during cranking coming from the starter. It should connect to the positive side.

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If that wire with the red tape is the hot, connect it directly to the red Pertronix wire.

Edit: sorry, connect both the hot and the red wire to the + side of the coil.

The hot should be coming from the ballast resistor.

Last edited on 10-17-2010 08:42 pm by Jensen Healey

Jensen Healey
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The Pertronix is just a switch. The hot 12 volts goes through the red Pertronix wire from the hot side of the coil. The magnetic switch in the distributor grounds the black wire (connected to the minus side) to trigger the coil.

Last edited on 10-17-2010 08:43 pm by Jensen Healey

jarnol123
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OK will try that...btw I don't have a ballast resistor

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Tried that ...still no hint of a spark anywhere...

Jensen Healey
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Remove all wires from coil. Find the switched hot wire and put it on the + side. put the red wire from the Pertronix on the + side. Put the black wire from the Pertronix on the minus side.

Check spark from coil. Pull the high tension lead out of the center of the distributor cap and hold near a ground while cranking.  

jarnol123
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I had to pack it up for today but I'll try this tomorrow and report back.

Thanks for all the help.

jarnol123
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When you say "switched" wire..which one is that?

jarnol123
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also when I'm cranking is this a manual crank or not?

Jensen Healey
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The wire from the ignition switch. It's white and goes through the tachometer and then to the ballast resistor.

On some later cars the wire has a built-in resistor and will only put out about 9 volts. What year is your car? Maybe that's why you have no ballast resistor.

Crank the car using the starter.

 

jarnol123
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Mine is a 1975...I'm going to try your suggestions now...will report back

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ok from my picture I have the red wire (with tape on it) or a black & White wire. Which one do you think is the ignition?

jarnol123
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OK I connected up the red wire (with tape, cloth) to the +ve of the coil along with the red wire from the Pertronix ignitor. I connected the pertronix black wire to the -ve of the coil. Tried the starter and no spark from the spark wire that I pulled out of the dizzy cap. I held it close to the engine and nothing. I guess the coil is shot or I'm not getting power at the coil.

jarnol123
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Ok, I checked the voltage with my multimeter and there is 12V. SO i guess the coil is shot?? funny though as I bought it new and it's never been used in a running jensen, ie this one!! Is it possible it got burnt out somehow?

jarnol123
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OK I put the old coil back in and got a spark (see pictures) .

The other 2 pictures are of the switch from the crane/allison elec ignition. My thinking is maybe it got fried by the flamethrower coil and somehow the coil failed after that??

Attachment: Picture 031.jpg (Downloaded 177 times)

jarnol123
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switch pics...

Attachment: Picture 032.jpg (Downloaded 40 times)

jarnol123
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c

Attachment: Picture 033.jpg (Downloaded 40 times)

Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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I use a flame thrower coil with the Allison and have had no issue so far, of course with that said

jarnol123
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I think the problem is that I installed the Pertronix Flamethrower Coil, replacing the Lucas Coil, and it somehow fried the Crane Allison switch in the Dizzy (see pic earlier in this thread). When I tested the old Lucas Coil again last night I got a spark so i guess the flamethower must be faulty or I somehow shorted it out??

 

Anyway, I now have the Pertronix Ignitor in the Dizzy and i plan to use the original Lucas Coil with it. Anyone else have this set up? If so, any issues with voltage to the coil...i.e. I have a 1975 healey and it doesn't have the ballast resistor, only a red wire from the ignition with a red cloth insulating it. I would think the Pertronix Ignitor is compatible with the Lucas Coil but i just want to throw it out there before I make the change.

 

Thanks for your help!

subwoofer
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The above picture clearly shows that the old coil is meant to run with a ballast resistor, and since you have a late car and can't see any, the resistor is likely to be part of the loom. There is no cloth insulation anywhere on my car, it could be a piece of relatively high resistance wire spliced into the loom?

Anyway, if I'm not much mistaken, the Flamethrower is a 12V coil, meant to run without a resistor. I did the mistake of keeping the ballast resistor and changing the coil to a 12V coil earlier this year, it ran fine for two days with brand new spark plugs, after that it gradually got worse, and after a weekend of driving it would hardly run at all. Then I realized my mistake, took off the ballast - and voilá! everything was back to normal.


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jarnol123
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What is the loom?  Are you saying that I should go back to the flamethrower (ie a new one that works) to go with the pertronix ignitor or can i stick with the lucas coil?

subwoofer
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The (wiring) loom is all the electric wires in the car, basically.

What would happen when using a low-impedance coil like a Flamethrower with a ballast resistor is that the voltage drop over the resistor becomes excessive, and the coil won't be able to make a spark at all. Your multimeter may not be fast enough to pick this up, and will only show 12V when the circuit is open.

If you run a wire straight from the battery to the +ve terminal on the coil, will it run with the Flamethrower then? The bypass circuit on the starter may not work, mine has packed in at least.

I believe you have two options: Run with the old Lucas coil, or locate and get rid of the ballast resistor and install the Flamethrower. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, just the ghost of Joseph Lucas throwing you a curve ball. Option 1 is probably the easiest.

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jarnol123
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Ok, well I don't believe the 1975 had a ballast resistor so I can't remove it. What i don't know is if the flamethrower i installed fried the crane allison switch.

The thing that worries me now is if i get a new flamethrower do i get the 3 ohm or the 1.5ohm version?? Also, the flamethrower coil should work fine with the pertronix ignitor switch i would hope?

 

subwoofer
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Just use the old coil, it should run fine with it. I don't know if the FT coil killed the Allison or if it simply died of old age, either is possible. If the wire running up to the coil from inside the car indeed is a resistor wire (it looks funny in the picture), then the FT may not be faulty at all.

I really don't know if the 1.5 or 3 ohm version is right, could have something to do with how many cylinders it is meant for.

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jarnol123
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well i tested the FT coil the same way i tested the lucas coil, i.e. hooked up the red power from the ignition to the coil and the wires from the petronix ignitor, attached the spark wire to the coil and held the other end near the engine block, then turned it over. Got a spark from the lucas but not the FT.

subwoofer
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And because of the resistor wire, the FT coil may not have seen more than 4V across the primary - depending on coil resistance. That would not be enough to make a spark. So until you test it with a wire directly from the battery to the +ve terminal on the FT while performing the same test, you can't say anything about the FT.

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jarnol123
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Ok i'll test it tonight and report back... thanks again!

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So i ran a wire from the battery to the +ve terminal of the coil and got a spark when I held the lead next to the engine block and turned the engine over.

Therefore a spark is being generated so either the rotor or the dizzy cap could be faulty?? I don't think the Pertronix Ignitor could be faulty as it's brand new. Mind you the dizzy cap and rotor are almost brand new too.
I can't see any obvious damage to the cap or rotor...is there something i should be looking for??

If i do have to buy new ones can i get them from Autozone or somewhere like that?

Art DeKneef
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I don't know that Autozone and such will have them. Maybe a place like Napa or BAP Imports might have them.

That being said I have some extra in one of my parts drawers. Let me know if you want to try them. I'm located in Mesa. 480-529-4430

Art

subwoofer
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jarnol123 wrote:
So i ran a wire from the battery to the +ve terminal of the coil and got a spark when I held the lead next to the engine block and turned the engine over.

Therefore a spark is being generated so either the rotor or the dizzy cap could be faulty?? I don't think the Pertronix Ignitor could be faulty as it's brand new.


So when you fed 12V directly to the FT coil you got a spark? That means that the resistor wire drops the voltage to the coil too much for the FT coil to work.

Neither the cap or the rotor is at fault, you have to bypass the resistor to make the FT work!

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Look for carbon tracking inside the cap. It looks like a fern drawn with pencil. Use a bright light to check. Check the side of the rotor for tracking and also check with a ohmmeter. Any contact from the brass on top to the spring underneath means it's dead.

Brett Gibson JH5 20497
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Well I have been reading along on your trials and tribulations, looking at the pictures and will chip in with my two cents.

First the thing with the bent wiring connections above the oil pressure tie in hose is part of the emmisions, you dont need it.

Second your wiring is in need of attention, if that red wire taped up is any indications your whole problem is probably dirty contacts and or broken wires, putting power to the coil with an additional wire tells you that.

Step back and start cleaning stuff up, check your wires for continuity, clean up your grounding wires, there are no quick fix's when your dealing with a car 35 years old, and your old Allison system is probably still good seeing you have the same issue using the Protonics.

Best of luck

Brett.

 

jarnol123
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Thanks for the advice. .. You know the spark i got from the flamethrower did look kind of weak. I think what I'll do then is go back and clean up all the wiring and then try the lucas 25D coil..

Questions:

1.  Do i need 12V directly from the battery for this coil? bearing in mind I don't have a ballast resistor?

2. I'd really like to use the Flamethrower coil so is there a way I can get the necessary 12V to it? I already ran a wire from the battery but I guess the built in ballast resistor (the red wire with the tape) is reducing the voltage, i.e. when I put my multimeter on the coil it only reads 10.8V).

3. When I did the coil test (flamethrower) I got a spark but when I connected the cap, rotor, etc. and tested the #1 Spark plug there was nothing...would that just suggest not enough spark? I would have thought I would have got something from the plug test just to show that it's working?

Thanks for all your help.

 

 

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OK I got it running.....sluggish though...I did get the timing correctly adjusted though...It smokes a lot from under the engine, does that indicate a problem with the exhaust manifold??

Also, does anyone know how to adjust a weber carb (see pic below)??

 

 

 

Attachment: IMG_2561.JPG (Downloaded 36 times)

subwoofer
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Most likely you have an oil leak from the exhaust cam cover. Oil drips down on the exhaust header, and starts to smoke when it heats up. The cure is a set of rubber gaskets from the JHPS store.

As far as the Webers go; The picture shows a set of Dell'Ortos... If the jetting is correct, it is simply a matter of balancing and idle mixture adjustment. See if you can get hold of a CarbTune to balance the carbs, it does make quite a difference on the off-idle pickup.

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Last edited on 11-07-2010 12:37 am by subwoofer

jarnol123
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yes sorry about that I know they're dellortos...I was thinking about webers for some reason when I wrote the message earlier.

jarnol123
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Hey Joachim,

can you help me locate the rubber gaskets in the jhps store? I can't seem to locate them.

thanks

subwoofer
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These are the ones:

http://www.jhps.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=jhps&Product_Code=RCG&Category_Code=CC

It really works. Not a single drop has escaped since I installed them.

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John Finch
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Carb tune on Ebay auction number is below. They work great

290496268758

jarnol123
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One more question...

On the Dell'ortos ....

what's a good setting for the idle and mixture screws (just to get to a good starting point??

I think I mucked them up initially and I have problems starting the engine....is it all the way closed and 4 turns back for the mixture??



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