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subwoofer
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I haven't found a dimensioned drawing of the Girling Type 14 caliper yet, but I am guessing it is a 3,5" lug mount type. Will any of these Wilwood calipers fit?

For a lug mount, is the distance from the lug mounting faces to the rear disc face standardized, or is it anyone's guess if these will fit?

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Joachim

Art DeKneef
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I doubt that any of those 3.5" calipers will fit. Based on my measurements the lug mounting points are 3.25" centered. Searching on that spacing shoes a few 2 piston calipers. They might fit.

However you have to consider that the JH rotor is roughly 10" diameter and 3/16" thick. So that limits the calipers for the narrow rotor. Now consider what size rims are you planning to use? And the mount offset will vary depending on the caliper used.

This has been discussed here several times in the past.

Art

subwoofer
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I started by selecting 4-piston calipers, that's why I didn't see the 3.25" calipers. Seems Wilwood is out for now, then.

I believe the rotor is 3/8", not 3/16", many calipers are available for 9.7mm rotors. Planning to run the standard wheels, possibly 13" Allycats.

I remember seeing a lot about TR7 calipers, but not much in the way of performance aftermarket caliper types. HiSpec in England has a lot more for 3.25" lug mounts.

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Joachim

Art DeKneef
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My bad. I did mean 3/8" for the rotor thickness.

I've heard the TR-7 calipers fit also. But have never confirmed that to be true.

Amongst my notes here on front brake upgrades are stories and pictures of using:   Ford ventilated rotors and calipers - unknown models numbers

Saab or Volvo parts - looks close based on wrecking yard visits

Outlaw brake 4-pot calipers and ventilated rotor - unknown model numbers

While i am sure it has been done, I have not seen any detailed information on a successful upgrade. It's something Jody and I have discussed a few times but our priorities have been getting our cars running.

I have a JH front frame and a GT front frame here that I am slowly cleaning and putting back together to use as testing points for a brake upgrade. Unfortunately it's not a high priority. Once I get a running car then I plan on spending more time on seeing what can be done.

Maybe if everyone that had an interest in this shared their notes we could come up with something that could be put together with all the parts needed.

Art

subwoofer
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I am a great believer in sharing notes. :-)

Circumstantial evidence suggests that we are up against a 3.25" lug mount, and a wild guess would be that the HiSpec M14 mount will be close (could that be a reference to type 14?). It is 3.25" mount, with a 19.5mm lug-to-disc spacing and a mount height of 61.3mm. They are wide, suggesting they are made for large diameter discs.

The Caterham260 mount has a lug-to-disc spacing of 18.8mm and mount height of 81mm. It is made for 260mm discs (10"3/8). That sounds awfully close, but we really need to make some measurements on the standard caliper.

--
Joachim

Art DeKneef
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I have a box with some calipers from a 74 JH somewhere around here. I looked for it yesterday but could not find it. I'll check again later this week and hopefully I will find it and can get some measurements. That will be a start.

Art

Jensen Healey
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If you're not racing I think the stock calipers and disks with Hawk 118 or other performance street pads are a vast and suprising improvment over standard or metallic pads. Very good modulation and feel and can be locked at will. They also reduce brake fade to a minimum.

What else are brakes supposed to do?

The Girling type 14 caliper was also used in Formula Ford racing cars. They were much lighter than a JH but it's not like the brakes won't work.

Get braided lines and replace the rear brake cylinders. Then flush the system with fresh dot 4 fluid. No issues here!

Kurt

Dakota123
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I fit new, not rebuilt, TR7/Spitfire Girling 16s procured from Rock Auto to 10628.  Other than a different mounting bolt (the caliper mounting hole is slightly larger), and adapting to metric pipe at the caliper, it was a bolt-in.  The piston is definitley larger than that of the 14s, which opens up options for increasing braking force if one works with the rest of the system (MC and booster), but as others have said pads and braided lines are probably the most important change one can make.  That, and rear brakes.

Mike


Edit: TR7/Spitfire are Girling 16, originally typed 14.

Last edited on 09-08-2010 04:46 pm by Dakota123

subwoofer
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Measured the caliper I had off the car today, here are the numbers:

Lug distance: 82mm (3.25")
Lug-to-disk: 20mm
Mount height: 68mm to outer edge of piston
Pad size: 60mm x 49mm

I am beginning to think that the M14 mount will actually fit. Now we need to figure out a way to get a vented disc on there.

Not to mention how to get rear disc brakes on there with as few machined parts as humanly possible.

--
Joachim

Greg Fletcher
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This caliper is a bolt on with a spacing washers and minor mods (it's the one I was selling on the club store a while back). As one owner said to me, "it makes the JH stand on it's nose". If you really, really want to stop fast, this would be one of the least expensive ways to go about it. You would need larger wheels for this.

http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/m16.html

As Kurt points out, ceramic kevlar pads & shoes and steel brake hoses with a well functioning stock brake system do a fairly amazing job to rehabilitate 1970's stopping power on this car.

JodyKerr
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Hey Greg,

What were the other mods involved?

Jody

Greg Fletcher
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You'll need to fabricate some custom rigid tubes and adaptors from the caliper to the flex hose as well as some anti rattle clips to keep the pads from making a bunch of squealing noise. I may have some tubes left if you need some.

gmgiltd
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Hi gents,
I am a new member to the club but have had a GT since 79 which was off the road for some time. When it was re commissioned I realised just how pathetic the brakes are compared to a modern car. I took the car to HiSpec in London to be measured up and have been developing the installation up to now. Hi Spec have been advised of all the bugs and should be able to provide all the bits for front or rear standard wheel or 15". I have 15" with 22mm vented on the front and 9mm thick on the back. Front calipers are 4 pot radial mount rears are 2 pot with a cable handbrake.
Gordon

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Hi people it's been a while since I've been on this forum but I'm back working on my JH again. I'm currently focused on the brakes and in particular the front hubs. I'm going to be running an escort mark two rear axle in the healey so was wondering has anybody ever swapped to ford front hubs off say a Capri 2.8i or a mk2 escort. As this way I would be able to harmonise my wheel bolt pcd to ford 108. At the same time it would allow the vented disc bolt up from a Capri 2.8i. If anyone has the wheel bearing data for the front spindles that would be good as I can then compare it with bearings used also by ford.

Also is there a separate thread on using miata mx5 tie rod ends on a JH stealing arm? To correct bump steer on a lowered JH?

Jensen Healey
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Hi James,

The only bolt-on hub swap I know of involves Holden parts from down under. Where are you located?

The Miata tie rod ends are certainly not a bolt on solution. I tried that one. They're metric for starters.
Cheers,
Kurt

gmgiltd
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Hi James,

There are bolt on kits from HiSpec in the UK for both 13" and 15" wheels which cost the same or less than the standard parts. Will attach some photos.

Gordon

Attachment: Front brake kit.jpg (Downloaded 250 times)

gmgiltd
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Rear Brake kit

Attachment: Rear brake kit.jpg (Downloaded 247 times)

gmgiltd
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Front installed

Attachment: Front on car.jpg (Downloaded 248 times)

gmgiltd
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Rear on car

Attachment: Rear on car.jpg (Downloaded 248 times)

gmgiltd
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Complete and working well.

Attachment: Installed with 15 inch wheels.jpg (Downloaded 251 times)

jamescheesewright
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I can re-tap the threads of the mx5 miata rods to 1/2" by 20 thread easy enough as I have that tap in my tool shop. I live in Melbourne Victoria home of the Holden torana and kingswood hq hz etc. I know I could run Holden uprights but that then forces me away from four stud hubs. Who or what parts do you know of are the go here in oz?

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Hi Gordon thanks for the picks. Might get in touch with high spec for the rear and front kit. Did you also end up having to change out your mc or adjust the rear brake bias pressure when they did the rear conversion from drums do calipers? What is the front disc diameter?

gmgiltd
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Hi James,
This is what I ordered in December 2011
Front
285/22mm Billet 4 conversion = £618.57
includes everything you need (callipers/discs/brackets/hardware/pads/hoses and brake fluid)
Rear
253/10mm Ultralite 2 SVA conversion = £492.36
includes (callipers/discs/brackets/hardware/pads/hoses and brake fluid)
Prices may have changed but will be in that region - Joachim (subwoofer) also has a kit from them but don't know if he has installed it yet.
I took my car in to them and they sized the pistons on the rear to suit the standard master cylinder. The fronts bolt right up - on the rears you need to make up a shim to compensate for the thickness of the original drum backplate and depending on what type of rims you are using you may need longer wheel studs and a 3mm spacer. You also need to fabricate the handbrake linkage - pictured is my second attempt which works.
Gordon

Attachment: Jensen Linkages.jpg (Downloaded 195 times)

Jensen Healey
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I stand corrected Which kit did you order?

gmgiltd
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Not a kit that is listed - as I said I took the car in and provided them with a back axle so they could measure up accurately. I would decline their universal handbrake cables and mod the standard setup. Best to give them a call and talk to Alex or send them an email and they will quote. They really were very helpful - I initially went there and told them that I wanted much better brakes and that's what I got.
Gordon

Frank Schwartz
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Great brake kit....and your GT is beautiful.  The only thing you did not tell us is the price of the kit.....

subwoofer
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The full kit (front & back) is £1200-ish shipped as a kit. I am hoping to install my new brakes sometime in June, just have to MOT her first.

gmgiltd
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Hi Frank,
I quoted the price split between front and rear above in pounds Sterling -Joachim paid a little more probably because he got the grooved discs.
They work very well powerful and progressive.
Gordon



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