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 Posted: 12-15-2008 11:06 pm
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Steve Jarvis
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Just wondering if there is a simple way to drain the oil cooler without totally removing it? Haven't worried about it in the past but thought I should get all the old oil out once in a while. Thanks.

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 Posted: 12-16-2008 08:03 am
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subwoofer
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AOL!

Judson suggested repeated oil changes to flush out the old old, but I think proper draining is better. Once drained, a few questions arise:

1: Is there a thermostat opening the oil flow to the oil cooler, or does the oil always flow through it?

2: what is the proper procedure for filling a completely drained system?

--
Joachim

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 Posted: 12-16-2008 08:56 pm
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frank12873
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Hi,

I just did this last week in connection with switching to 10W-40 oil from 20W-50.

I undid the four bolts holding the oil cooler to the car....then simply twisted it up and dumped the oil out the hoses, after taking the oil filter off of course. A lot poured out; I'm sure I got most if not all of it.

I will tell you, it took me over an hour to get the four tiny bolts back in. What a pain!

Judson suggested that the oil cooler be refilled with fresh oil after draining. I must confess, I didn't do this, so it took a while longer than usual to register oil pressure upon start-up, but still less than 30 seconds at idle speed. (Am I subconciously trying to finish off my old engine, so I'll "have" to get Judson to build me my dream engine?) I just didn't want to undo the hoses at the cooler; a while back I had problems with them leaking. Next time I'll undo one of the hoses and fill the cooler, though, and dare the hose to leak! 

I'm pretty sure there's not a thermostat controlling oil flow to the cooler.

I hope this is helpful.

 

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 Posted: 12-16-2008 09:26 pm
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Steve Jarvis
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Thanks. I was considering holding the unit (where the hoses connect at the oil filter) over a bucket and using a small (read that very little) amount of air pressure to blow it out. Based on putting the cooler in place previously it's way too much work to remove and reinstall.

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 Posted: 12-16-2008 09:55 pm
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frank12873
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I'm not sure that you'd exacuate as much of the oil blowing it out like that as you would dumping it out like I did. Seems like you'd get most of it out that way, though, and as I said, getting those darn bolts back in was a huge pain. Took forever to get 'em lined up with the holes and started.

Hmmmm... I wonder if it's possible to thread the bolts in from underneath, then fit the cooler onto the "studs" and put nuts on top to secure it.....would be much easier to get a nut on a visible bolt that a bolt in an invisible hole... 

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 Posted: 12-17-2008 01:25 pm
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smcmanus
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I haven't tried this but you could simply undo the feed line and run clean oil into it until clean oil comes out the filter base.  I think this would work since the hot oil going out would flow more easily that the cold oil going in.  Maybe use a length of hose and a funnel so that you have a foot or too of head and let gravity do the rest.

Have a nice day

Steve

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 Posted: 12-17-2008 03:55 pm
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Judson Manning
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Steve,

You've got the right idea and your experience hints at the difficulty in getting all of the engine internals clean.  Draining the cooler removes the oil but not the sludge and varnish left behind from 30+ years of driving/sitting.

If you focus only on the oil cooler, you are missing about 1.5 qts of oil that always gets trapped in the pan along with the cam housings.  For this reason every factory manual from every car company will talk about pulling the oil pan and cleaning it after a certain number of miles.

The inside of any engine is not unlike a dish-washer.  Repeatadly pumping fresh, hot, clean oil mixed with a few additives has the same effect as tearing the engine down and cleaning it by hand with paint thinner.

Tearing down and learning about the engine has its own rewards, so I can't argue if someone wants to enjoy that experience.  Personally, I'm at the point where I'd rather pump a few cases of oil through the system rather than 'enjoy the opportunity' to clean another one.

Judson

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 Posted: 12-17-2008 05:02 pm
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Jensen Healey
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During the rebuild I cleaned the oil cooler with paint thinner, not much gunk was in there. The oil pan was a many hour cleaning job. I recommend sending the block and pan to the hot tank for cleaning.

If you follow the 3000 mile/ twice a year schedule your oil will never be a problem.

I don't advocate this schedule for modern cars. I ran a Ford V6 130,000 miles on a 10,000 mile/ 1 year schedule and it passed a California dynamometer smog test like new just before I sold it. I skipped half of the recommended oil changes! The engine ran fine, the rest of the car fell apart.

The oil company myth of 3000 miles wastes huge quantities of oil every day. They double their sales by perpetuating it.

Kurt

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 Posted: 12-18-2008 01:48 pm
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Mitch Ware
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Both of my Audis, even the twin turbo, had recommended oil change intervals of 10k miles. 3000 mile oil changes are an excessive use of oil and not necessary unless you are really working the engine, i.e. towing, hauling, dirty and dusty mileage, etc.

Mitch Ware - #19670

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 Posted: 12-22-2008 05:08 am
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Sylva
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My manual shows that there is over 2 pints difference between the amount of oil used at an oil change and that used for a 'new 'engine.

Drain the oil and then take the cam covers off, these is loads of oil left all over the inside of a 900, so I only bother to change the oil in the cooler at rebuild. But then I change the oil every 500 KM as my engine it is only used on the track.

As for the recomendation to change oil every 10K miles, I'd say this is a wast of of an engine not that more frequent changes are awaste of oil, everything I've read, and everything I've been told is that the 10,000 mile change is a car company figure that they require to make annual services a reality, and is not driven or supported by oil company engineers.

Kelvin

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 Posted: 01-10-2009 02:48 am
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pbahr
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Hi guys,

Let's not forget that we are talking about a 40 year old engine design.
  1. I have to agree with Judson that changing the oil a couple of times will do as much flushing as you need - unless the engine has been really mis-handled.  Pull a Cam Cover or look at the inside of the oil filler cap and if there is sludge and heavy deposits all over the inside, you really have to worry.  If it is reasonably clean, no worries.
  2. Oil viscosity.  Modern engines are designed for very low viscosity oils.  Don't confuse any comments or experience made to modern engines about viscosity to your JH.  Use the recommended viscosity of 20W/50 or 10W/40.  The latter for colder climates such as Norway.
  3. Frequency of oil changes is related to more than one issue.  Oil will break down chemically due to several reasons, and will be contaminated with acid, dirt, water and the additives will deteriorate.  Oil is not that expensive, so change it once a year or every 3000 - 4000 miles:
    • Mileage
    • Ambient temperature
    • Environment - dust/moisture
    • Time
    • Frequent start-ups with insufficient time at full engine temperature
    • Probably other issues.......
    • When YELODOG is on the track, I change oil every other event - 300 - 400 miles.
  4. More importantly, you should worry about the kind of oil used, and what kind of additives are included in the formula.  Critical to the JH engine is ZDDP, which should be about 0.13 %- 0.18%.  Modern automobile engines differ from our old Healeys in two important ways. First, they have to interact with catalytic converters, and second, they have fewer points where metal actually rubs against metal anymore.



The major change is that an additive named zinc-dialkyl-dithiophosphate, ZDDP for short, has been reduced significantly in oils specifically intended for new cars. ZDDP, along with some other metal additives like manganese, mix with the exhaust and gradually clog up the catalytic converter


Oils intended for diesel engines (which don’t have catalytic converters, yet and require ZDDP to minimize gudgeon-pin wear) in the same weights, such as Castrol Syntec Blend Truck 15W-40, Mobil Delvac, or Shell Rotella are recommended for the JH.  If you like synthetic oil, in February 2008, Castrol released a new formula Syntec in 20W50 which is labeled "For Classic Cars" and contains the necessary amount of ZDDP.


If you can't find any of the recommended oils, phone your oil company and talk to an engineer or their sales dept.


 

Hope this helps,

Pete

 

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 Posted: 01-10-2009 07:28 pm
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Jensen Healey
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It's certainly safer to go with more frequent changes.

I hated my Ford minivan and wanted it to die but a lack of oil changes couldn't kill it. Modern engines are really good!

JH oil: Valvoline VR1 once a year or 3000 miles which never comes first.

I guess I'll go change the oil on my wife's Nissan Murano. You'd laugh if you saw the filter!

Kurt

Edit: Check out the oil on coffee filter tests at:

http://www.schleeter.com/test/oil-test-library.htm

 



 

 

 

Last edited on 01-10-2009 08:02 pm by Jensen Healey

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 Posted: 01-11-2009 03:05 am
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pbahr
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The Schleeter article is really neat.  I've asked him for a "roadmap" of the various blotch characteristics - or, do you know where on his website it might be found.  If I don't get it, I'll have to figure it out from his "library"....

I also use Valvoline VR-1 (racing oil) in my JH.  It has the proper amounts of ZDDP.

YELODOG

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